I will be happy to verify it at the LACES Summit. I forwarded Larry's answer to LACES also. ________________________________ From: wyomingabe-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wyomingabe-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Willmarth, Kelly Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 3:06 PM To: wyomingabe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [wyomingabe] Re: GED students enrolling in college Fall 07 Margaret, If I understand Larry Condelli's answer, we have been counting goals correctly in Wyoming. However, from Shannon's comment at LACES training, I don't think LACES will count a goal as met in the current program year if it is met after 6/30. Can you please verify this at your meeting. Thanks, Kelly Willmarth, Program Manager Adult Career and Education System (ACES) Laramie County Community College 1400 E. College Dr. Cheyenne, WY 82007 307.637.2403 307.637.2460 fax kwillmar@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kwillmar@xxxxxxxxxxx> ________________________________ From: wyomingabe-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wyomingabe-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Margaret Elwood Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:44 AM To: wyomingabe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [wyomingabe] Re: GED students enrolling in college Fall 07 Hi, Kathy, I am attending the LACES Summit in Boulder on September 10. I will visit with David regarding the drop down list of goals in LACES and the Family Income Range. I just sent out Larry Condelli's answer to the question regarding the student who sets the goal of postsecondary education in PY 06-07 and starts college in the fall. Per Larry, as long as he starts college before 12/31/07 you can count him on table 5 for PY 06-07. After 12/31/07, he would be on table 13. ________________________________ From: wyomingabe-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wyomingabe-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Vincent Kathy Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 4:27 PM To: wyomingabe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Shelly Andrews; Ed Boenisch; James O. Rose; Cottenoir Jeanie Subject: [wyomingabe] GED students enrolling in college Fall 07 Hi Margaret, Since Sept. 30th is looming in the very near future, Jeanie and I have been discussing LACES, the Federal Tables and students that attended our program in 2006-07 and had "placement in post secondary educ or training" as a goal. Our discussion brought to mind the last training for LACES in Casper in June when Shannon Stangis from LACES told us we could not count enrollment in college classes this fall as completion of the goal of "placement in post secondary educ or training" because the student would be completing a goal after the PY year they were enrolled in our program. In other words, they were students in PY 06-07 but completed their goal in PY 07-08. Shannon said that for these students we instead had to mark the goal as "achieved." This would then convert the goal to an "unintended outcome" which is tracked on Federal Table 13. We didn't think this was acceptable since we've been counting it as a goal completion for many previous years and we believe you said you would check with NRS/Larry Condelli to see if it was acceptable under NRS regulations for us count this goal as a completion for PY 06-07. It would seem more logical to have it show as a goal completion in the same program year rather than to have students in one program year and their goal completion in another year. It's always been my understanding that we want to stay away from "unintended outcomes." It doesn't look good. It's unintended and your data is split between two program years. Have you been able to contact Mr. Condelli in regard to this? Also, at the training it was noted there are a multitude of goals on the drop-down list of goals in LACES. Too many to be exact. It was noted that during the migration there was confusion and LACES migrated not only goals but also the AEM "reasons for enrolling" giving us a very long list of goals. Have you had a chance to discuss this with David Miller and have you decided which goals we as a state want to keep on LACES? Also, there's the problem of the Family Income Range on LACES. We have always placed students in an income range based on the Federal Poverty Tables which are updated each year in February. The Family Income range numbers on LACES are different than the numbers on the Federal Poverty Tables. Have you had a chance to discuss this with David Miller and would LACES be willing to put in the Federal Poverty Table income levels? And would they be willing to update and/or possibly change the table each February? The number of low income students is reported on Federal Table 6. OK, I think that's it. Thanks for your help in these matters, Margaret. Kathy Kathy Vincent, Director Adult Basic Education Central Wyoming College 2660 Peck Avenue Riverton, WY 82501 Ph. 307-855-2189 or 800-735-8418 ext. 2189 Fax 307-855-2019