[wisb] Re: RFI:Finch ID

Well, that's what I get for writing an email, leaving it for a few hours,
and then sending it before I check for responses! I didn't realize Chris
and Tom had responded as well.
This bird is super red, and that's unusual. But given the huge variability
in house finch redness, I suspect this guy is just sexy, not aberrant, and
not a Purple Finch. Biologically I think it makes more sense to have a
difference in the amount of red than in the color itself (although House
Finches can be much more orange, too...). I also disagree that the facial
pattern matches Purple Finch. I think that was my initial reason for
discounting that species. It's missing the high-contrast light purple dark
purple effect of a supercilium, eye line and malar stripe. This guy has a
single grey-brown thing going from his eye and curving into the auriculars.
And I am worried about the nape and back - I can't tell if that's an
optical shift due to the light or what - I don't think it's purple. I think
it's brown in late daylight, but I'm not sure. I'd be curious if Sid has
more photos of this guy.

As an aside, I gotta say I do not like how these species are illustrated in
my Sibley guide.

Jesse Ellis
Madison, Dane, WI


On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Chris West <little_blue_birdie@xxxxxxx>wrote:

> Tom and all,
> With all due respect, not even the House Finches of southern Arizona have
> that much red. House Finch will always display a white belly. The red on
> this bird (or rather, deep crimson) extends all the way back and through
> the flanks, something no House Finch would display.  Bill size in
> proportion to the rest of the bird is far more Purple Finch-like than House
> Finch. Also, the brownish stripe through the eye, which creates the
> distinctive facial pattern, is indicative of Purple Finch.  As you mention,
> Purple Finch is typically chunkier than House Finch. Something I'm seeing
> quite evident in the photos rather than the more streamlined shape. Most
> Purple Finches have some purplish wash through the wings, but not all. This
> is a pigment distribution that isn't displayed on some birds. Also, if you
> look at the nape and the upper back, that whole area is a deep purplish
> color. While this can show on House Finch, it is much more common on Purple
> Finch.
> Another thing to note is how evenly the coloring is spread throughout the
> chest, underparts, head, back, etc.  House Finch generally has a focused
> area of color that is brighter than the rest where Purple Finch is
> typically much more even in its color distribution.
>
> Sorry, but unless more photos are produced that can clearly support either
> identification, I'm going to have to stick with Purple Finch on this one.
> This is a bird I get at my feeders all winter every winter. They're pretty
> easy to pick out among the few House Finches.
>
>
> --Chris W, Richland County
>
> > From: jjprestby@xxxxxxx
> > To: little_blue_birdie@xxxxxxx; wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [wisb] Re: RFI:Finch ID
> > Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 19:49:55 -0600
> >
> > Chris and all,
> >
> > This bird looks like a classic House Finch with a little more red than
> normal. Although it is rosier than normal it does not fall outside the
> lines for House Finch. Don't let the bill confuse you, the bill can look
> large in zoomed in pictures like these, especially depending on the angle.
> Most important are the gray wings and gray eyeline and cheek, neither of
> which a Purple Finch will have. Purple Finches should have a pinkish wash
> on top of the gray in the wings which this bird does not have. This bird
> does lack streaking but I don't consider that important for outruling House
> Finch either. The shape always seems different too, Purple Finches seem
> chunkier. Of all the House and Purple Finches I have seen, I would not
> think twice about this being a House Finch.
> >
> > Tom Prestby
> > Hayward, Sawyer Cty
> >
> > > From: little_blue_birdie@xxxxxxx
> > > To: tcwood729@xxxxxxxxx; wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [wisb] Re: RFI:Finch ID
> > > Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 17:27:40 -0600
> > >
> > > Tom and all,
> > > For reference purposes, Sid's photos are of a Purple Finch.  The bird
> in Sid's photos has a larger bill than would be expected on a House Finch,
> lack of any streaking at all, brilliant red coloring all the way down
> through the chest, flanks and belly, and, most importantly, has a brown
> line through the eye which accentuates the red supercilium. I've found this
> combination of field marks to be highly reliable when identifying Purple vs
> House Finch.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Happy Birding! --Chris W, Richland County Interpretive Naturalist
> Mississippi Explorer Cruises
> > > http://mississippiexplorer.com/chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://swallowtailedkite.blogspot.com/
> > > http://www.nabirding.com/http://www.flickr.com/photos/swallowtailphoto
> > >
> > > "The beauty and genius of a work of art may be reconceived, though its
> first material expression be destroyed; a vanished harmony may yet again
> inspire the composer; but when the last individual of a race of living
> things breathes no more, another heaven and another earth must pass before
> such a one can be again."
> > >
> > > (From William Beebe's "The Bird: Its Form and Function," 1906)
> > >
> > > > From: tcwood729@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > To: Wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [wisb] RFI:Finch ID
> > > > Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 17:17:36 -0600
> > > >
> > > > Sidney Hamm's last post about the finch he photgraphed at Bong has me
> > > > realizing I have a lot to learn about Finch ID.
> > > > Because I live in the southern part of the state, I see very few
> Purple
> > > > Finches during the year, and I'm usually looking up at them. Those
> of you
> > > > who
> > > > live in the northern tier of counties probably see them regularly at
> your
> > > > feeders. Do any of the Purple Finches you see have as much brown on
> the
> > > > crown and cheeks as the bird in Sidney's photo?
> > > > The House Finches I see around here all have streaking on the
> underparts and
> > > > this is a major field mark mentioned in the field guides. So,
> conversely,
> > > > does anyone see House Finches with unstreaked underparts as seen on
> the
> > > > photo?
> > > > I find color to be the least useful ID mark with bird photos on my
> laptop.
> > > > Depending on how I have the screen tilted I can make the bird look
> > > > anywhere from the raspberry red of a Purple Finch to the brighter
> red of a
> > > > House Finch. This is due to the characteristics of an LCD display.
> > > >  The bill looks large for a House Finch, but perhaps that is because
> > > > Sidney's lens puts the bird right in our face. We can't see the tail
> notch
> > > > which would help with the ID.
> > > > Thanks in advance for any advice.
> > > >
> > > > Thomas Wood, Menomonee Falls, Waukesha County
> > > >
> > > > ####################
> > > > You received this email because you are subscribed to the Wisconsin
> Birding Network (Wisbirdn).
> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or SUBSCRIBE, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> > > > To set DIGEST or VACATION modes, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> > > > Visit Wisbirdn ARCHIVES at:
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/wisbirdn
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ####################
> > > You received this email because you are subscribed to the Wisconsin
> Birding Network (Wisbirdn).
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or SUBSCRIBE, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> > > To set DIGEST or VACATION modes, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> > > Visit Wisbirdn ARCHIVES at: http://www.freelists.org/archives/wisbirdn
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ####################
> > You received this email because you are subscribed to the Wisconsin
> Birding Network (Wisbirdn).
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or SUBSCRIBE, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> > To set DIGEST or VACATION modes, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> > Visit Wisbirdn ARCHIVES at: http://www.freelists.org/archives/wisbirdn
> >
> >
>
> ####################
> You received this email because you are subscribed to the Wisconsin
> Birding Network (Wisbirdn).
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or SUBSCRIBE, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> To set DIGEST or VACATION modes, use the Wisbirdn web interface at:
> http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
> Visit Wisbirdn ARCHIVES at: http://www.freelists.org/archives/wisbirdn
>
>
>


-- 
Jesse Ellis
Post-doctoral Researcher
Dept. of Zoology
University of Wisconsin - Madison
Madison, Dane Co, WI


####################
You received this email because you are subscribed to the Wisconsin Birding 
Network (Wisbirdn).
To UNSUBSCRIBE or SUBSCRIBE, use the Wisbirdn web interface at: 
http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
To set DIGEST or VACATION modes, use the Wisbirdn web interface at: 
http://www.freelists.org/list/wisbirdn
Visit Wisbirdn ARCHIVES at: http://www.freelists.org/archives/wisbirdn

Other related posts: