[wisb] Re: Dowitcher ID - what do you think?

  • From: "Tom Schultz" <trschultz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 23:49:51 -0500

Sorry I haven't been able to get back to this today -- too many things going 
on, and I just got home a little while ago.

Unfortunately I hadn't realized until later that there were additional 
close-up photos of birds A, B & C available on Ryan's website.  I guess I 
responded too quickly after viewing the initial shots that showed all three 
birds.  The other views of these birds were more helpful, and I would now 
concur with the Long-billed ID for all three birds.

Bird C was the most definitive and easiest, since it showed good looks at 
the broader black barring (vs. the white) on the rectrices (tail feathers) 
that is typical of LBDO -- and this feature shows especially well in some of 
the close-ups.  The additional photos of A and B show angles that provide 
better views of the back feathers (actually scapulars) as well as the 
greater coverts, and they do appear quite dark, and show good contrast with 
the white tips.  These can also be seen as cutting off pretty straight at 
the top (rather than tapering back more along the edges, as is typical for 
Short-billed).

I'm not sure I agree with Kevin's comments about the "kink" in the bill as 
being helpful, as I have often observed this feature in both dowitcher 
species.

Tom Schultz
Green Lake Co.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Ryan Brady
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 9:50 PM
To: wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [wisb] Re: Dowitcher ID - what do you think?


Discussion seems to have run its course. I'm reasonably satisfied now that 
all of these are Long-billeds, based on some additional research and good 
feedback I've received from various respected sources. John Idzikowski 
chimed in with Long-billed for all three, as did Kevin Karlson, co-author of 
The Shorebird Guide.


For anyone still interested, Kevin's comments are in the caption of the 
photo at http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/143076479

I put John's comments in the caption of the photo at 
http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/image/143076480



Thanks to all for the learning experience.  I'll be much better equipped the 
next time I see some dowitchers!



Ryan Brady
Washburn, Bayfield County, WI
http://www.pbase.com/rbrady




> From: ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [wisb] Re: Dowitcher ID - what do you think?
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:09:42 -0600
>
>
> While finality is always nice, I'm somewhat happy that in the three forums 
> I've posted this to (here, wisbirdn facebook group, and facebook ID group) 
> disagreement/confusion reigns as well. So Nick, Sam, and I weren't missing 
> the boat. In addition to what you've read here on wisbirdn, a couple folks 
> I also highly respect have weighed in on Facebook with differing opinion 
> that all 3 birds are Long-billeds. Most notably comes the following from 
> Alvaro Jaramillo, who some of you know:
>
> "Hi folks. All three look like Long-billed Dowitchers to me. They are not 
> fully molted in on the underparts, making them tougher. Flank pattern of 
> rusty, black bar and white tip with no rufous between the black or white 
> is very good. Black centered scapulars with white fringes that constrict 
> at rachis, so that with a little wear they will look like two separate 
> white spots on each feather is good. Extent of rusty below all good, lack 
> of single spots anywhere on reddish belly is against Short-billed. The 
> shorter billed one is a male. The hendersoni are also more orange below, 
> less brick, and have more gold tones on the upperparts in spring."
>
> Thanks for the discussion so far, looking forward to more informed input.
>
>
> Ryan Brady
> Washburn, Bayfield County, WI
> http://www.pbase.com/rbrady
>
>
>
> > From: stevethiessen@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx; wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [wisb] Re: Dowitcher ID - what do you think?
> > Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 01:49:03 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> > On pic 58, A bird's throat doesn't appear clear. I'd say A and C LB's 
> > and B
> > not sure. It has more rust edged scapulars with out white, but still 
> > seems
> > to have a lot of white, brighter on some pics. Regular texts don't solve
> > some problems. Online photos don't always help either and are miss 
> > labeled.
> > I was looking yesterday, because we had the same problem Wednesday. 
> > There
> > was a photo where the person was making a point that the SB's bill is 
> > quite
> > long and had a LB in the photo. Steve Thiessen Stoughton Dane co.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ryan Brady" <ryanbrady10@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <wisbirdn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:45 PM
> > Subject: [wisb] Dowitcher ID - what do you think?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Short version...what species are represented by these dowitchers seen 
> >> in
> >> Ashland yesterday?
> >>
> >> http://www.pbase.com/rbrady/dowitcherid
> >> http://www.pbase.com/nanich/dowitchers
> >>
> >>
> >> Longer version... Sam Krerowicz found three dowitchers just west of
> >> Ashland yesterday and then Nick Anich and I headed out to take a look
> >> after work. We didn't have much time and expected Short-billeds, even
> >> though it's slightly earlier (by about a week) than we usually see 
> >> them.
> >> We walked up and tried turning them into Long-billeds. We thought we 
> >> might
> >> have 1 LB and 2 SBs at one point and then convinced ourselves they were
> >> all just the expected SBs as LBs are quite rare here. We soon left to
> >> return to our fatherly duties but later last night that ID didn't sit 
> >> well
> >> with us. After some chatting Nick and I started to convince ourselves 
> >> that
> >> Bird C had to be a LB. Then we were leaning toward all 3 being LBs. 
> >> Then
> >> we were just downright confused. And here we are...confused. This is a
> >> tough ID and one Nick and I frankly are not comfortable with. We 
> >> butchered
> >> the whole process as we could've had killer photos of the birds in 
> >> perfect
> >> light but our hurriedness resulted in mostly poo
> >> r digiscopes and heavily cropped dSLR shots, which are in the two
> >> galleries above.
> >>
> >> What do you think? I've labeled the individuals in my gallery for ease 
> >> of
> >> referencing Birds A, B, and C during discussion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ryan Brady
> >> Washburn, Bayfield County, WI
> >> http://www.pbase.com/rbrady ####################
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