[webproducers] Re: We're so cool you should work for free!(WILL SOMEBODY SHOOT ME NOW!)


Agreed. I was seduced...by the dark side. However, when you're
hungry and trying to establish yourself, you need take risks
like that.

Not everyone has the luxury of going through the proper motions.
They can be off-putting to some, especially if you're a nobody
like me.

Needless to say, that friend is no longer my friend and that
agency still doesn't have a web site.


--- Lydia Sugarman <thegoodegg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> I think we've all experienced that at least once.  It's easy
> to let yourself be seduced by the prospect of it being an
> easier process because....  The mistake is viewing it as a
> unique situation and departing
> from the usual business practices.  I think the most important
> lesson I learned is that by following my usual SOP, I garner
> more respect and the client feels more respected as well.  I
> guess the old axiom
> "Familiarity breeds contempt" is more true for these
> situations than we'd care to admit.
> 
> It sucks.  We learn.  Life goes on.  Better luck next time. 
> Forewarned is fore armed.
> 
> Lydia
> 
> AKF wrote:
> 
> > Under normal circumstances, I would have done an SOW -
> having
> > been on the interactive agency side of things in the past,
> I'm
> > quite familar with them.
> >
> > However, the project I got burned on was a unique situation.
> To
> > make a long story short, the contact was made through a
> friend
> > who personally knew the decision maker at the agency.
> >
> > Based on this, I was told to dispense with normal procedure
> and
> > simply draft a proposal because this project was a given.
> >
> > Later, I learned that I would be pitching against one or two
> > other vendors. As I was already pretty deep into my proposal
> and
> > design concepts, it was too late to turn back and scrap my
> work.
> > Instead, I hoped for the best and after a lot of hard work,
> I
> > won the pitch only to get screwed later.
> >
> > As I said, it was an unusual situation and under normal
> > circumstances, I would have used a SOW and been more
> cautious.
> > However, in traditional advertising (particularly print and
> > direct mail), a lot of business is awarded to vendors who
> "know"
> > someone at an agency. I thought this situation would be no
> > different until the agency changed the rules on me midplay.
> >
> > Anyway, you have given sage advice. Thank you.
> >
> > --- Lydia Sugarman <thegoodegg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > A few months ago I attended one of John Federico's Free
> Agent
> > > Forums where sales experts let us in on some of their
> secrets
> > > for closing deals and getting paid, sometimes 100% up
> front.
> > > I happened to get a call
> > > from one of the participants a couple of weeks ago asking
> me
> > > about email marketing.  As we chatted, I mentioned that I
> was
> > > working on a fairly big "proposal"  and that I had two
> more to
> > > deliver that week.  He
> > > immediately reminded me that one NEVER submits a proposal.
>  It
> > > is always a "Statement of Work."  And, it never exceeds
> three
> > > (3) pages, regardless of the project or client.
> > >
> > > I've taken that to heart.  I just submitted a "Statement
> of
> > > Work" to a Fortune 400 company after a short series of
> > > conference calls which represented a first hurdle in the
> > > review process.  Two pages.  I've been
> > > asked to come to their headquarters in Houston to meet
> with
> > > senior executives and discuss an email marketing program
> for
> > > their 350 sales executives.  By the way, my competition
> was "a
> > > recognized industry leader"
> > > whose two year contract will not be renewed.
> > >
> > > I do not give specifics in a Statement of Work.  I talk
> about
> > > what I will do, a schedule, elements of the project,
> > > qualifications of the team, and the cost.  They're either
> > > interested or not. If they are
> > > interested, they ask how soon can we start and can they
> > > execute a formal agreement with specifics spelled out.
> > >
> > > I've worked too long and too hard to give away ideas in a
> > > proposal.  That's what I get paid for!
> > >
> > > The other very important piece of information I took away
> from
> > > that seminar was delivered by an incredibly obnoxious, but
> > > incredibly successful man.  In his work agreements, he
> offers
> > > the client a 10% discount
> > > if they pay his fee up front.  Otherwise, there is a
> strict
> > > payment schedule.  He requires prompt payment to continue
> with
> > > the project.  Otherwise, the project shedule goes to hell.
> > > Deliquent payment is
> > > penalized with interest charges.
> > >
> > > I love these business practices. It instills respect.  It
> > > definitely reinforces the value of what the consultant is
> > > selling.  It puts the consultant in control and allows
> him/her
> > > to do the job contracted by the
> > > client.
> > >
> > > I got really tired of feeling like a helpless victim and
> it's
> > > really unattractive, in every sense.  It can be a real gut
> > > check, especially when you don't get the job.  But, I have
> to
> > > say that between the Theory
> > > of Abundance and implementing these standard business
> > > practices, things have definitely been looking up lately.
> > >
> > > Granted, I don't do exactly what others on this list do,
> but
> > > there are basic principles that hold true regardless.  I
> don't
> > > think anybody likes taking sh*t and being treated poorly.
> > > This is what I'm reading
> > > about in these accounts. Stop allowing people to walk all
> over
> > > you!  Take control.  Isn't that what project managers and
> > > producers supposedly get paid to do?
> > >
> > > Oh! Regarding the cool factor.  Go in with the attitude
> that
> > > you're so cool you *might* consider working with them.
> > > Non-profits with no money to pay you?  Tell them to factor
> you
> > > in on next year's budget.  All
> > > those non-profit people are not working for nothing.  Why
> > > should you!?
> > >
> > > Lydia Sugarman
> > >
> > >
> > > Duane Douglas wrote:
> > >
> > > > At 03:54 PM 7/3/2002 -0700, AKF wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > >About the only thing that kept me from slitting my
> wrists
> > > was
> > > > >the fact that early-on in the process, I got them to
> sign
> > > an
> > > > >agreement that prevented them from using any of my
> ideas or
> > > > >design concepts for their web site just in case they
> were
> > > > >fucking around.
> > > >
> > > > damn.  i wish i'd thought of that.
> > > >
> > > > i spent about 10 hours preparing a proposal for a new
> > > client.  once they
> > > > got the proposal, they stopped taking my calls.  i'm
> pretty
> > > sure that they
> > > > got the son or daughter of someone's friend to do the
> job
> > > for peanuts.
> > > >
> > > > do you mind sending me a copy of that agreement?  it
> could
> > > save me from a
> > > > lot of future grief.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________________________________
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> > > >
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> the
> > > list archive at the website.
> > > >
> > > > Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
> > > morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lydia Sugarman
> > > --
> > > Managing Partner
> > > Private Label InterActive
> > > "Markets are conversations."(c)Cluetrain Manifesto
> > > Intelligent eMail Communications Solutions
> > > P:  212.533.3456
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
__________________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > > Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
> > morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
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__________________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the
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> >
> > Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
> morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> --
> Lydia Sugarman
> --
> Managing Partner
> Private Label InterActive
> "Markets are conversations."(c)Cluetrain Manifesto
> Intelligent eMail Communications Solutions
> P:  212.533.3456
> 
> 
>
__________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the
> subject to webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular
> commands including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and
> vacation  visit  www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the
> list archive at the website.
> 
> Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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