[webproducers] Re: Off Shore Labor Issues

Please forgive me and my oversight, Michael. While I was writing my 
response to Andrey Chashkov, yourpost came across the transom and I 
added the opening sentences acknowledging your points and then failed to 
go back and clarify to whom I was responding at the end of my email.

  I was absolutely not referring to you.

Those remarks were directed to Andrey Chashkov.

Sincerely,
Lydia Sugarman


Michael Randazzo wrote:
> Lydia:
> 
> You used "you" and "your" in the last two paragraphs of your e-mail, so
> I would like to clarify my position:
> 
> 1) I am not promoting off shore It practices (and certainly have not
> posted a position on any other discussion lists). I believe we all
> should be realistic and realize that in our current capitalist economy,
> work/employment follows the cheapest labor pool. This reality was
> underscored by IBM's recently announced position - which only reinforces
> rampant practices by other US corporations. 
> 
> 2) As a community devoted to the well being of its individual members, I
> belive that WebProducers.org is an entirely appropriate forum for
> discussing this issue which promises to have profound impact on our
> membership. If we do not look at this issue carefully, will cannot claim
> surprise when its full implications are realized.
> 
> Michael
> 
>   >>> lsugarman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 08/07/03 08:21 AM >>>
> Michael, I commend you for your measured response.  My reaction may be a
> 
> little more visceral, but it echoes in a very immediate way the same 
> issues you raise.
> 
> That kind of out sourcing does not exist for me.  I live and work in the
> 
> US and  I believe in keeping jobs in the U.S. and supporting the economy
> 
> here.
> 
> I have a problem with all the companies that lie to get H1B visas to 
> bring cheaper labor into this country while qualified citizens are out 
> of work and I have a problem with out sourcing for the same reason.  I 
> believe it comes back to bite  you in the ass,  personally, corporately,
> 
> and on a national basis.  It is beyond me why the U.S. doesn't enforce 
> its own laws to protect its workforce as other countries do.
> 
> So, I will gladly pay a fellow American in this country and preferably, 
> in this city to do the work and hope the favor is returned.  But, in the
> 
> meantime, I know that I am doing my part to bolster our economy. 
> Besides, I like being able to sit across a conference table or a table 
> in Starbucks to discuss my project with the person who's doing the work.
> 
>   I need that give and take to feel confident that I am getting to where
> 
> I want to be in terms of a great design and back-end. I also know where 
> to go if something goes awry or regular updates are needed.  I've been 
> involved in enough projects to know that every programmer works 
> differently and it's far preferable to go back to the same person since 
> it saves time and money over the long run.  I'm a big subscriber to the 
> "you get what you pay for" philosophy.
> 
> Your unrelenting litany on this and other lists about sending work out 
> of the country is offensive and insulting when the very people on those 
> lists are the ones who are suffering most from this practice....and you 
> expect to get advice from them?....really!  How rude of you!  Frankly, 
> I, for one,  am really tired of your always offering as the panacea for 
> everything  to send work out of this country through your company based 
> in Canada.  Give it a break.
> 
> 
> Most lists have members scattered all over the world who understand what
> 
> being part of a community means and have respect for their fellow 
> members.  You seem to be completely lacking in that understanding.
> 
> Lydia Sugarman
> 
> 
> 
> Andrey Chashkov wrote:
> 
>>I'm just wondering - does it really make sense to pay contractors
> 
> $65-95
> 
>>and more if you can get the same level of quality, turn around time,
>>experience and all the rest for $20-30 working with off-shore gurus?
>>What do you overpay for?
>>
>>Andrey Chashkov,
>>CEO, TechnoArt Labs
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: webproducers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>>>[mailto:webproducers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Katherine Gray
>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:19 AM
>>>To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: [webproducers] Re: Need a Flash/web designer for 3 
>>>weeks onsite...
>>>
>>>
>>>In our next of the woods (Pacific Northwest), going rate is 
>>>$65 - 95 per hour for contractors. We have a developer who 
>>>also has a "production rate" of $45 when she's not doing 
>>>design, just animation and production, a rate I think is 
>>>faaabulous. -Katherine
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: Lydia Sugarman 
>>> To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:00 PM
>>> Subject: [webproducers] Re: Need a Flash/web designer for 3 
>>>weeks onsite...
>>>
>>>
>>> Just curious what the going rate for Flash design is these 
>>>days?  I am 
>>> in the  midst of putting together a team for a couple of 
>>>possible projects.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lydia Sugarman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Bushnell wrote:
>>> > Hi folks --
>>> > One of our designers has the unmitigated gall to put her 
>>>upcoming wedding
>>> > before her work and will be taking three weeks off, so 
>>>I'll need a talented
>>> > Flash/Web designer to fill her chair.
>>> >   > We're a small creative development and promotions agency, 
>>>located at 28th
>>> > Street and 7th Avenue.  You can see our web site here:  
>>>http://www.dma.net.
>>> > Most of your time will be taken developing Flash templates and
>>> > presentations.
>>> >   > You should have a solid portfolio of first-rate Flash design
>>
> (an
> 
>>> > understanding of basic actionscripting is a must, solid 
>>>scripting knowledge
>>> > and/or Generator experience is a plus) and web design and 
>>>production.  Some
>>> > Shockwave and/or Swift 3-D work is also a plus.  We 
>>>develop in Dreamweaver
>>> > and are a PC-only shop, so while we're fine with you 
>>>harboring ill-will
>>> > towards Bill Gates, we'll need you to swallow it for a while.
>>> >   > The gig will be on site at our offices and will begin 
>>>August 25th and end
>>> > September 12th.  Pay will be commensurate with experience.
>>> >   > Please send URLs pointing to your work to me at 
>>>dave@xxxxxxxx  Please point
>>> > out the specific work you did if you didn't do the whole 
>>>thing.  Try not to
>>> > call me - I'll get back to everyone that e-mails.
>>> >   > Thanks!
>>> >   > -- Dave Bushnell
>>> > -------------------------------------------
>>> >   >>>>>>DIGITAL MARKETING ASSOCIATES <<<<<<<<
>>> >>>>>
>>> > Creative development for interactive media.
>>> >     212-741-9588 | http://www.dma.net
>>> > -------------------------------------------
>>> >   >   >   >
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> 
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>>
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>>  >   >   -- 
>>  Lydia Sugarman
>>  Managing Partner
>>  Private Label InterActive, Inc. / CoolerEmail East
>>  http://www.PrivateLabelInterActive.com
>>  Intelligent InterActive Communications Solutions
>>  Ph: 212.533.3456
>>  Cell: 917.445.8637
>>
>>  Power NetworkingT - "Business NOT as usual!"T
>>  http://www.ersvp.com/reply/augpowernetworking
>>
>> 
>>
> 
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> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
>>__
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> 
> 


-- 
Lydia Sugarman
Managing Partner
Private Label InterActive, Inc. / CoolerEmail East
http://www.PrivateLabelInterActive.com
Intelligent InterActive Communications Solutions
Ph: 212.533.3456
Cell: 917.445.8637

Power Networking™ - "Business NOT as usual!"™
http://www.ersvp.com/reply/augpowernetworking

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