(VICT) Re: training to walk straight when there is no sidewalk
- From: Mona Ramouni <mramouni@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 00:26:11 -0400
Hello Ann and everyone,
Ann, thanks so much for the detailed response. You've given me a great
deal to work with, which is invaluable, as I'm at the point where I'm
needing more advice and am pondering some of the questions you've
posed. I have only been training Penny in harness for about two and a
half weeks, so this is all quite new and exciting for me. So far, she
knows find the curb, cross the street and take me to the up curb, go
right, go left, forward (of course) hup-up, easy, whoa, stop at
terrain changes, stop at the bginning of driveways, show obstacles in
the middle of the sidewalk (She figured that one out on her own, and I
just rewarded.), and wait. She also knows how to find the latch to the
gate, find steps, go up steps (We'll work on grace after she learns
not to run up or down!), find her dish, give her feet, give a kiss,
(Cali taught her that one!), and "touch". When I first got Penny, she
did not let me touch her legs, would bite and kick if I tried, and
wouldn't let me touch her tummy or her tail, either. I've had her for
exactly three months, and she now allows me to touch her anywhere,
lean against her, accidentally bop her (I haven't dropped anything on
her head yet, well, nothing traumatic, really, except for bits of hay,
I swear!), and put a relieving harness on her (She now doesn't mind
the bag on, as it means lots of clicking and treating.)
You asked many questions about Penny, and I'll answer some of them as
best I can, prefacing my answers by saying that the Penny story is on
Cali's blog
theeyesofmona.blogspot.com
and that I never expected to train Penny as a guide. Initially, I
simply got her because I thought Cali needed a friend (She thinks
otherwise!) and because I fell in love with her the moment I met her.
The way this story began is that I went to a mini expo, hoping to find
some tack that I couldn't find for Cali. I was also hoping to see mini
foals, as I'd never had that pleasure. A man there, Penny's breeder,
was showing three of his mares and their foals, and he mentioned that
he had a yearling there as well. Would I like to see her? You can
imagine my answer. Who is going to pass up the chance to see a little
yearling? My intention was to gush over the filly and be out of there
in time to buy some tack for Cali, but of course, things didn't work
out that way. Instead, I met Penny, and I was undone. Her breeder
warned me that Penny was pretty skittish and hadn't been handled at
all, that in fact, she had been on pasture for her whole life except
for when she was brought in with the other hors in the winter. Her
parents are of notable lineage, blah, blah. She has beautiful
conformation, but her breeders decided they wouldn't show her because
even though she has very refined features and is very
delicate-looking, she is a liver chestnut, which is a solid brown, and
no markings at all, which means she'd never win in color. She isn't
flashy like Cali, so her breeders wanted to sell her.
Well, I asked to take Penny's lead rope. Her breeder acquiesced, even
though I could tell he was reluctant. Right away, Penny pulled her
head up from the glass and stood next to me. When I walked, she
followed on a loose lead. When I stopped, she did as well, and she
didn't stop to put her head down to the grass. I knew, just knew that
she was my horse. And so, that was that and here we are.
But of course, things rarely turn out the way we expect. The universe
has its own plans, and so does Cali! Cali does not want a friend. She
is the boss. All the food is hers, even Penny's. She might share some
of Penny's own food with her if Penny treats her with enough
deference. Then again, if there are treats involved, Penny's on her
own!
Almost right away, I realized that I could train Penny as a guide just
for the experiment, just to prove I could do it. I am no horse
trainer, as I've only had Cali for two years, but I figured I'd at
least have a little fun and enjoy my summer since I couldn't have the
vacation from myself that I wanted!
And so, I started working with Penny to see if I could train her to
guide. Her breeders had told me that Penny's father is extremely smart
and that they have to keep giving him new toys so he won't be bored,
but I didn't think too much about it. After all, what horse could be
as smart as Cali? Maybe Penny would learn a few things, like letting
me groom her and touch her legs and tummy. I wanted to teach her to
guide, but I didn't get my hopes up.
Again, the universe had more in store for me, for Penny, and for my
reluctant Cali. Right away, Cali started teaching Penny to stop at
certain things and to point them out. Penny quickly learned to stop at
obstacles and show them with her nose. Soon I was able to touch her
everywhere, and not long after that, I taught her to paw simply by
tapping my foot on the thing I wanted her to show. This horse is
amazingly smart, so I don't take much credit for what she knows. Also,
Cali has taught her more than I expected (I won't mention the
negatives here.)
As of yet, I haven't house-trained Penny, though she knows that at
certain times, she should potty and will get a reward for it when I'm
around. Again, my girl has helped in this because Penny sees her go
potty and get a treat, and then she tries to do the same thing. The
weather has cooled off a bit, so I plan to spend a few days watching
Penny and getting pottying on cue (I know, I need lots of luck!)
Penny is a little shorter than Cali at this point, and I think she'll
be a bit taller than Cali, though she'll be more refined and will
probably weigh less than my girl. Cali is built like a little Morgan.
She's very striking, but petite, my girl is not. Penny, on the other
hand, is very petite and refined-looking, with a beautiful little
head. She is definitely more submissive than Cali, though she is
getting more determined as the days pass. (She now shoves her head
into Cali's dish and steals a mouthful before Cali can stop her, and
she often shoves between Cali and I when she wants attention. Penny is
a horse who will bond strongly to one person, and she wants lots of
attention from her person, whereas Cali bonded strongly to me but
doesn't mind too much when I leave.
As I said, Penny is extremely smart. She's also much easier to work
with than Cali, as she's always eager to please. Cali tries to please
me, but she's a tough horse to work with in some ways. She challenges
me a great deal.
At this point, I'm planning to sell Penny, the reason simply being
that Cali has adamantly let me know that she needs no friends. Also,
I'm having so much fun that I would love to do this —train horses as
guides—for as long as I can. I don't think I'll ever become rich, but
I'm having a blast. Besides, it's a way to give back to people. I'm no
Dolores or Alexandra, that's for sure, but if I make a little
money—enough to get me through graduate school—I'll be happy.
Hopefully, I've answered all your questions. If not, you're more than
welcome to ask away. Oh, and by the way, I imagine that Penny will
grow to be a bit taller than Panda, but refined in build like her,
though there 1so no resemblance between Panda and Penny in
temperament. Your girl, Ann, is a firecracker, a boss, I think, while
Penny is content to be somewhere in the middle of a herd.
Everyone, take care and enjoy these last few days of summer. Happy trails!
Mona
On 8/26/11, Ann Edie <annedie@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi, Mona,
>
> It's great to hear that you are having so much fun with clicker training
> another mini guide horse.
>
> There are several ways to teach Penny to walk along a street where there are
> no sidewalks. I'm presuming that you want to walk down the left side of the
> street, facing traffic, because that is what is recommended and in some
> places required by law. (Just as vehicles, including bikes, have to travel
> on the right side of the roadway, pedestrians are supposed to walk on the
> left, so that they are able to see oncoming traffic on their own side of the
> street.) (Of course, the fact that we cannot see the cars coming even if we
> are facing them does somewhat mitigate the logic of this rule, at least in
> the case of a blind person. But I don't think the makers of laws would care
> to consider that point.)
>
> In any case, you can use your foot, either in front of, or behind your
> guide, or a cane, to monitor your position with respect to the side of the
> road while walking along with Penny. I would start out just by heeling her
> on your left side and using your cane in your right hand to keep yourself in
> position, just on the paved surface of the road, or on the gravel shoulder,
> if such exists. You can choose whether you want Penny to walk on the
> pavement or on the gravel/lawns.
>
> You would start out in good position, walk just a step or two at first, and
> if everyone is still in good position, click and treat, and then start up
> again, going another step or two before c/t-ing. Gradually increase the
> number of steps you go before c/t-ing until you can go along the edge of the
> road, even where the road itself curves. You would gradually give Penny
> more of the responsibility for maintaining your position along the side of
> the road, rather than doing that yourself. Eventually, you might even veer
> slightly away from the edge of the road in your body language to see if she
> has gotten the point and will correct your veer and bring you back to the
> edge of the road.
>
> If you have already introduced Penny to guiding in harness, then you can
> repeat the procedure above with her in harness and guiding, but with you
> still using a cane or foot to check from time to time to make sure that she
> is keeping you along the edge of the road.
>
> Another useful behavior that you might want to teach her is to step sideways
> toward the left . You can practice this on a sidewalk or driveway at first,
> and then later on a sidewalkless road. I use a lift on the lead rope as the
> cue to step sideways. You lift the lead rope and wait for a response from
> her. If she makes any move in the general direction of left or away from
> your left side, release the lead rope downward and c/t. Gradually build
> until a lift of the lead results in a nice step sideways. When it is
> well-established, you can add a verbal cue, such as "Edge" or "Over left."
> Then, when you're walking along a sidewalkless road or driveway, you can ask
> her to step over left any time you want to make sure she is staying along
> the edge of the roadway. Of course, she should stop at the edge of the road
> and press back against you if there is an obstacle on your left or if you
> have trained her that you don't want to walk on the lawns or whatever is
> alongside the road.
>
> Eventually, also, you will have to teach her how to respond to obstacles
> along the edge of the road, everything from storm drains to mailboxes to
> parked cars to overhanging tree branches and piles of autumn leaves, and
> eventually--yes, winter will be here again before we know it!--to piles of
> snow and slippery patches of ice.
> You will have to decide whether you want her to stop before each of these
> obstacles and wait for you to give her a signal to go out and around them
> when there is no oncoming traffic, or whether you want her to keep going and
> go out and around the obstacles unless she sees a car coming and decides
> it's not safe to proceed. If you do feel her going out and around some
> obstacle, you can give the cue for stepping left back over to the edge of
> the road, and check to make sure that she is returning to that position as
> soon as practical. I always c/t when Panda brings me back to the edge of
> the road after going out and around an obstacle, both to reinforce an
> important safety feature, and just to acknowledge her good obstacle
> avoidance work.
>
> A couple more things that you will want to keep in mind for future reference
> are: 1) Do you want her to stop for driveways along the sidewalkless roads
> or, in some other way, to indicate where driveways or pathways are? Panda
> usually goes up into the mouth of the driveway and walks along on it, then
> comes back to the street when she gets to the other side of the driveway.
> This shift to the left and then back to the right allows me to count
> driveways if I need to for orientation purposes, without the interruption of
> our progress of a full stop at each driveway.
>
> 2.) Do you want your guide to follow the curb around onto a perpendicular
> roadway when she comes to an intersection, or to stop at the corner without
> going around the corner? I do want my guide to stop at intersections, both
> for orientation and for safety reasons. I prefer to have her follow the
> corner around. As we're approaching an intersection, if I know there is one
> coming up, I can ask her to "find left" and when she does go around the
> curve to the left, I can then tell her to turn right and she will halt where
> we are in a good position to cross the intersecting street, if that is what
> I want to do. This allows me to cross the side street after listening for
> traffic and determining if it is safe to cross, at a place where the street
> is at its normal width, rather than right at the intersection, where it is
> flaired out and much wider. This position for crossing side streets also
> prevents us from veering into traffic on the street we are walking along.
>
> Hope that is helpful. And do tell us more about Penny! Where did you meet
> her? And how did you decide to take on another mini? What does she look
> like? How tall is she at this point? How tall do you think she will mature
> to be? What color is she? Have you housetrained her yet? Do you have any
> plans for her once she is fully trained? I know several people who would
> love to have a guide horse, if she gets to that point and is of small enough
> stature. Are you going to go into the guide horse training and placement
> business?
>
> Sorry for all the questions. I'm just excited about your new project.
>
> Best,
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mona Ramouni" <mramouni@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 1:30 PM
> Subject: (VICT) training to walk straight when there is no sidewalk
>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I haven't posted in a long time because I've been busy. Three months
>> ago, I acquired a yearling mini filly. I fell in love with her and
>> just couldn't resist. I am now training her to become a guide, as much
>> for the experience as anything else. Pennystock knows how to walk
>> straight when we're on the sidewalk, and now I want to progress to
>> walking where there are no sidewalks, as this happens quite often in
>> the neighborhoods where we will want to walk. I'm sure someone on this
>> list knows how to do this, and I'd appreciate some help. Penny is
>> progressing so fast that I'd like her to keep going, but I'm stumped
>> on this one.
>> Thanks so much in advance for all the advice. I'm having so much fun,
>> even though I feel like I'm usually not sure what I'm doing. Cali is
>> doing a lot of the training for me, though she still isn't happy about
>> the interloper who gets to go on walks with us. Hence, Cali gets walks
>> alone. Otherwise, she refuses to work! Talk about a jealous mare!
>> Take care, and enjoy these last few days of summer. I know I am! The
>> next few days are predicted to be beautiful (read no rain, mud, and
>> very little humidity), so I'm taking full advantage!
>> Mona
>>
>> --
>> Mona
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
--
Mona
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