(VICT) Re: questions from a friend about her guide dog

Ann,
Thanks so much for that response. I'm going to forward this message to my 
friend in hopes that she will take your advice. I think, though, that she'll 
ultimately choose to send Peggy back to Pilot.
But your advice is nevertheless appreciated. I know that I'll use it if 
necessary, and because I don't have any experience with guides save Cali, 
this is going to be interesting, stressful, and hopefully, fun!
You take care, and do give your Panda a big hug from me. Without Alexandra's 
Panda Project reports, I never would have found this opportunity, so you, 
Alex, and of course, Panda all get my everlasting gratitude.
Mona
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 4:44 AM
Subject: (VICT) Re: questions from a friend about her guide dog


> Hi, Everyone,
>
> An 80-pound dog does not have to be a too-strong puller.  My first guide
> dog, Bailey, was an 80-pound chocolate lab.  He had a moderate pace and 
> not
> too strong a pull, and he worked wonderfully for me for 9 years.  He was
> traditionally trained, but we added clicker training to his repertoire in
> the second half of his life, and it greatly enhanced his life and his joy 
> in
> his work and our relationship.
>
> Traditional training techniques do contribute to the dog's pulling harder
> and wanting to get to the end of the walk as fast as possible to aleviate
> the stress of never knowing when you will get corrected for some mistake 
> or
> other.  Thus, correcting the dog under these circumstances only increases
> the dog's stress and anxiety, and makes him pull harder and go faster, so
> that he may even make work errors, such as running curbs or not stopping 
> for
> cracks in the sidewalk or ice on the path.
>
> Clicker training techniques can make the process of getting from one place
> to another much more pleasant and less stressful for both the dog and the
> handler, and thus reduce the need to pull and rush.  When the dog is 
> relaxed
> and enjoying the process of guiding, because he is being rewarded for the
> things he does correctly, his mind is much more able to notice and respond
> to the things in the environment that he needs to adjust for to keep the
> handler safe.
>
> By the way, my miniature horse guide, Panda, weighs 120 pounds and is 29
> inches tall, yet she is easier to handle and has a more adjustable pace 
> and
> pull than most dogs less than half her weight.  Panda was trained, and she
> is handled, entirely using the clicker and positive-reinforcement
> techniques.  She is completely happy with the process of traveling from 
> one
> place to another, and she loves to show me how she can handle obstacles,
> puzzles, and anything else we might encounter while on our way.
>
> All that being said, It does take time and a period of stepping back and
> rebuilding behaviors to transition from traditional handling techniques to
> more positive techniques.  And this is, in my experience, difficult to do
> "on the fly", or while depending on the dog to take 100-percent of his
> responsibilitty as the guide for the blind handler.  I think it would be
> particularly difficult for a person with no experience with clicker 
> training
> to learn the method and at the same time rehabilitate a guide that has
> developed unwanted behaviors while still depending on that dog to do 100 %
> of the guide job.
>
> My advice to Mona's friend would be to try to avoid the "corrections", and
> just concentrate on catching the dog at the instant he is pulling at the
> strength the handler is comfortable with and giving lots of praise and
> treats at those instants.  At first, this might mean stopping, making a 
> fuss
> over, and treating the dog after the very first step he takes when 
> starting
> out, before he has worked up a head of steam, and doing this repeatedly,
> many times, first going away from home where he may tend to pull less, and
> only once the correct pull is established on the outbound trip, trying the
> same thing on the trip toward home.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karyn and Thane" <bcpaws4me@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Vi-clicker" <vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:12 PM
> Subject: (VICT) Re: questions from a friend about her guide dog
>
>
>> Yikes 80 pounds- that would be almost two of Thane or Met. Nope I think 
>> in
>> that situation I would probably want a better match too.
>> My guys have been a perfect size for me to handle. I can not imagine 
>> leash
>> training a larger dog than I have. I know her dogs are trained by a
>> program.
>> It sounds like that guy may be better suited to a really tall active
>> person.
>> It must be hard though- saying goodbye when a mis-match happens. I know
>> inevitably one day I will attempt to train a dog and have it not work out
>> for one reason or another. Thus far I have been lucky that way.
>>
>> Karyn and Thane
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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