(VICT) Re: (VICT)Long: Buckley being aggressive......
- From: Infinitepaws@xxxxxxx
- To: vi-clicker-trainers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:04:12 EDT
In a message dated 10/25/2007 8:25:49 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
ridge_e@xxxxxxx writes:
but the kids normally aren't running up to him or running in general on
Sunday's
I worked on this same issue with a pretty aggressive dachshund.. don't
laugh.. he had seriously bitten 3 people and the owner was desperate. We
started
with having the handler make windmill type arm movements toward him at home in
a safe environment.. in the arm that she windmilled down she had really high
value treats. Once he was ok with that she would work in the front yard and
parking lots and parks etc.. Finally we worked in class with her holding him
and me standing outside his comfort range and tossing treats. Then moving
forward, then walking past him, and tossing a really good treat to him at a
distance that he didn't react to my movement. Once he seemed fine with that , I
moved closer. When he was ok with that then we did head on approaches at a
walk with the windmill motions and later "as he got more comfortable, we
increased the speed of my approach. As I gave the treat, I also retreated.. To
keep
everyone safe, especially me! It also added a double reward.. the dog wanted
me to leave so it was reinforcing to both get the treat and for me to leave.I
originally tossed the treats on the ground in front of him..Keep in mind
that this dog was already doing basic obedience and was clicker-wise, although
very people aggressive/defensive. On or off leash.. My concern is that this
might not be a protocol that I could safely do now without professional help. I
gave up doing dangerous dog behavior work shortly after that dog because of
my vision loss. I didn't feel safe anymore and to be honest, you cant always
expect owners to keep the trainer safe.. they just dont read dogs that well
and often mistake agression postures for play postures. It is also not a fast
fix.. This dog was in weekly classes with me for a year and still was not 100
percent reliable. His owner took him to work with her and had him loose with
her other dachshunds in their shop and I finally managed to convince her that
all the love and training in the world would not change his basic fear of
people.. just improve it and that she would need to manage him for the rest of
his life. He had bitten the fedex guy and 2 customers who came in already.
My concern with Buckley is that he is becoming defensive/agggressive toward
scary kids. Kids are unpredictable. Redirecting him to something like a sit is
fine for immediate management of the situation, but probably isnt changing
his view of children. Especially if he was corrected with a collar into a sit.
As I would have done in the days before clicker when I was taught and used
traditional dog training methods.
He is also a service dog. He will see and interact with more unknown
children than most dogs will ever meet. He absolutely must be safe and
non-reactive
towards them. Your vision issues may be interfering with interpretation of
his behavior and , at least in my case, I have trouble with folks approaching
me until they are right on top of me. This is definitely a case for a
professional. Is there someone nearby who you might be able to get to come and
watch?
Preferably someone with a lot of experience with behavior modification in
agression? Don't fool yourself, this is agression. Keep in mind though that a
trainer who works on eliminating the growling and not the underlying problem
of Buckley being uncomfortable with kids, is only setting Buckley up for a
bite without warning. If you take away Buckleys ability to tell you he is
uncomfortable, then you will have lost the best clue that he IS
uncomfortable..
That will leave him with the only option of tolerating it until he is far
beyond the threshold of fight/flight and into the world of protecting himself
and
you from a perceived threat.
Until this issue is resolved, I would seriously consider not working him in
public or possibly teaching him to wear a muzzle comfortably.. Then again a
working service dog in a muzzle is not a good thing.. Be aware though that
safety for others is a higher priority than the service he provides, both for
you and for others. You do not want to be taken to court for a bite for
damages,
or even worse being responsible for a small childs permanent disfigurement
or disability, or even worse .. death.
Keep in mind that I have not actually seen Buckley work and only a
professional experienced in behavior and canine body language can assess what
is going
on. If you choose to work on this yourself, be warned that it can be a long
road and mighty dangerous one, with a lot of risk to you and to others, with
no real guarantee.
I know I sound hard on this. I am. Aggressive dogs are a time-bomb waiting
to happen. We as visually impaired folks are less likely to have advance
warning of a potential bite situation than a sighted person. By the very
nature of
our disability, we are less able to protect our dogs from these type of
situations. as natural as the dog's reactions are .. they are not acceptable in
a
human society.
I own a mildly fear aggressive Great Dane. I know his limitations and my
responsibilities. If he leaves my property, he is muzzled. I micromanage him.
He
was corrected for growling by his previous owner and will not growl before an
attempted bite. I can read his body language if my darn eyes are
cooperating, but I wont take the risk. He is afraid of tall women and all men
and is
uncomfortable with children. We have worked on this to where he is a lot
better and no one who isnt very experienced can see his body tension rise..but
I
will never consider him cured. BTW, he considers his muzzle a great thing as it
means he gets to go for a coveted WALK. He gets almost as excited as Alex
does when I pick up her harness. Muzzles are not inherently bad, but they
allow
me to be a little less stressed about him in public, although he can still
knock someone down and hurt them. We still work on his associations with the
scary things but he is 10 yrs old and I am not expecting a cure.
Sandy Foushee
Infinite Paws-Abilities Training and Service Dogs
Teamed with Alexandra Guide/Service Dog
Colorado Service/Assistance Dog Club - Trainer.-
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