[THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy

In the US a billion is a thousand million. (1,000,000,000)

And notice that I said 1GHz is one million ticks each millisecond (i.e. one
billion ticks per second).. I was showing that there are one million ticks
every thousanth of a second, one million ticks each ms.

Brian

Brian Madden
202.302.3657
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--------
Visit www.brianmadden.com for thin client white papers, books, product
reviews, courseware, and training videos.


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Brian Lilley
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:34 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy

hhhhmm... OT but, an English billions is different to a US Billion... i.e.
UK is a thousand million and the US is a million million...

in computer terms am I right in thinking it is a thousand million??



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 September 2003 15:09
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy


FYI GHz is Giga (Billion) not Mega (Million)! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Madden [mailto:brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 September 2003 03:59
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy


OK Everyone,

I have my own theory on this. But first, step back and take a look at
who has had input (either directly or indirectly) on this thread:

Rick Dehlinger
Kevin Goodman
Rick Mack
Tim Mangan
Mark Russinovich
David Solomon

I mean wow! This is why this group rocks! These people are the best of
the best.

What are the results of this thread? Some say change the setting to
foreground mode and some say change to background mode. Not everyone
agrees.

One thing is known for sure. The actual foreground (application) or
background (server) mode "performance boost" doesn't really matter since
"foreground" applications are only at the server console. However, what
does matter is the fact that changing this setting also affects the
amount of time (quanta) that any process has guaranteed access to the
processor.

If you want my opinion (which you're going to get whether you want it or
not), I would bet (although unsubstantiated) that it doesn't really
matter in a Terminal Server environment. Here's why I think this setting
doesn't
matter:

Based entirely on information from this thread, it appears that the
maximum allowed time slice we're dealing with here (based on this
setting) is either 180ms or 30-60ms (this changes depending on number of
processors, etc.) Well, if you have a server running at 1GHz, you have
one million clock ticks for each millisecond. 180M ticks in 180ms, and
30M-60M ticks in 30-60ms. I would think that an individual process
probably wouldn't need that much time. Furthermore, I would think that
the system couldn't possibly give that much time away anyway.

For example, if a thread was able to use its full 180ms time slice, only
5.5 threads would execute per second. Imagine you have a server with 50
users. In order for each user to get access to the CPU at least once per
second, they would need to have threads execute for them for a maximum
of 20ms. (1s / 50users = 0.02s each). This is well under even the 30ms
limit as configured by this setting. Then, on top of that, remember that
each user has multiple threads running, etc, and that they need access
to the server more than once per second. I guess my point is that in a
Terminal Server environment, I can't possibly imagine a single thread
coming anywhere near the time slice/quanta limit, whether the limit is
30ms, 60ms, or 180ms.

My completely theoretical and totally unsubstantiated theory: This
setting does not matter on a Terminal Server.

Brian

Brian Madden
202.302.3657
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--------
Visit www.brianmadden.com for thin client white papers, books, product
reviews, courseware, and training videos.
 






I guess my "official" policy on this will be that I don't know. If you
want more performance and have the time to play, then try changing it.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mack, Rick
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 7:21 AM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy

Hi Brian, 

Got into a discussion with Rick Dehlinger about this a few years ago and
called in Mark Russinovich as a referee. 

His opinion was that it does matter. Smaller timeslices (quanta) mean a
more responsive system when you've got a lot of processes, but at the
cost of more context switches per second. So overall excecution
efficiency is reduced a bit, but for applications getting keyboard input
for example (word, excel etc) it means a whole lot smoother
input/display. 

One side effect of large quanta is even more incredible end to end
slewing when your'e using a mouse to navigate through a large
spreadsheet.

Of couse large quanta make a lot of sense for a small number of i/o
intensive processes, but not terminal services. 

Regards, 

Rick 

Ulrich Mack
rmack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Volante Systems
18 Heussler Terrace, Milton 4064
Queensland Australia
tel +61 7 32467704 



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Madden [mailto:brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, 16 September 2003 6:33 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy 


So, after reading all these quanta things, does this setting really make
a difference? 

I understand that Tim and/or Kevin are testing to see which setting is
better, but wouldn't it not really matter since an adverse setting would
only be impacted by what an administrator is actively running on the
console?

I would assume that this setting doesn't really matter in the real
world? 

Brian 

Brian Madden
202.302.3657
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--------
Visit www.brianmadden.com for thin client white papers, books, product
reviews, courseware, and training videos. 


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Timothy Mangan
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:07 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy 

Simple test.  The thread that owns the "foreground window" also gets a
priority boost.  You can see this in the performance monitor.  Start a
program (I like "regedit" because it only has one thread), bring up
performance monitor: Add counter Thread: Current Priority for the
thread(s) of the application to be tested.  You will see the priority
increase when the window had the focus.  Works as console of TS session.

tim 


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 9:28 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy 

Here is Kevin's response: 

His answer has made me curious. I can prove who is right with a small
test. I'll let you know. Kevin Goodman CTO RTO Software

* +1-678-455-5506 x702
6  +1-678-455-5551*
kevin.goodman@xxxxxxxxxxx
Address:  5400 Laurel Springs Pkwy, #108 Suwanee, GA  30024  USA
http://www.rtosoft.com 

Bernd Harzog
CEO
RTO Software, Inc. 
bernd.harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx
678-455-5506 x701
www.rtosoft.com 

 -----Original Message----- 
From:   Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent:   Monday, September 15, 2003 9:22 AM 
To:     thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Subject:        [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy 

Ok, no I have to allot some time today to test this. 

Ron Oglesby
Senior Technical Architect 
  
RapidApp
Office 312.372.7188
Mobile 815.325.7618
email roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
  

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Rogers [mailto:Andrew.Rogers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 8:12 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: thread quanta and chkroot.cmd thingy 

Interesting, RTOSoft vs TMurgent - whos right? 

You really know how to ask good questions Brian!! :) 

Andrew
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