[THIN] Re: scripting

I'm not being overly defensive - it's just that it's an easily provable
fact - it takes about a minute in total, and I just don't think it
warrants all this questioning, posturing, and posting articles and
quotes when you can damn well prove this, uncontroversially, and
unequivocally for yourself.

For the time it takes to check this, and the time you've taken
"defending" your rebuttal of my initial point - go and actually check,
before burdening the whole list with even more pointless debate over a
bogus rebuttal, that you could have established yourself, within about a
minute, before polluting the archives with confusing misinformation.

So before rebutting - once again - do yourself, and anybody reading or
searching the archives, a favour, by simply checking, before bickering -
sorry debating - this again.

And for a token, seasonal gesture - he's behind you! ;-)

Neil 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders
> Sent: 01 December 2005 12:57
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: scripting
> 
> Don't get defensive Neil. I'm not gathering evidence, I'm 
> just researching for my own interest, as it's contrary to 
> what I was taught, and therefore what I've always passed on 
> to others. All documents and postings I have read only refer 
> to Windows 2003 as being session only. I will indeed try it 
> out on a test server, and will post an official apology to 
> you if I am wrong. :)
>              
>              "Braebaum, Neil"                                 
>              
>              <Neil.Braebaum@li                                
>              
>              ttlewoods.co.uk>                                 
>           To 
>              Sent by:                  <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>   
>              
>              thin-bounce@freel                                
>           cc 
>              ists.org                                         
>              
>                                                               
>      Subject 
>                                        [THIN] Re: scripting   
>              
>              01/12/2005 08:37                                 
>              
>              PM                                               
>              
>                                                               
>              
>                                                               
>              
>              Please respond to                                
>              
>                    thin                                       
>              
> 
> There's only so many times I can repeat the same thing - 
> install mode is for the session with Windows 2000 terminal services.
> 
> If you've got one, test it yourself. Do a change user /query 
> and have more than one session. The switch to install mode in 
> one session. Do a change user /query in another session - 
> what does it tell you?
> 
> If you really doubted that, you could run regmon in the 
> execute session, and see what gets updated.
> 
> These are things that don't need referrals or other documents 
> to confirm
> - you can confirm it in practice, for your own, very eyes.
> 
> I suspect at some point, there was a change, because from 
> memory, Winframe seemed to behave differently.
> 
> Arguing with me other this, and then trying to gather 
> evidence, is a somewhat futile waste of effort, when if 
> you've got a W2K terminal server, you can prove it for your own eyes.
> 
> Neil
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders
> > Sent: 01 December 2005 12:28
> > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: scripting
> >
> > A quick search found this document written by Jeff Pitsch.
> > http://www.brianmadden.com/content/content.asp?ID=480
> >
> > It says..."Even worse, if the user installs a new 
> application that's 
> > packaged as an MSI, it will put the server (for Windows 2000) or 
> > session (for Windows 2003) into install mode. While in 
> install mode, 
> > all users share the same .ini files and registry areas, and changes 
> > made to these areas and the HKCU area for the new application are 
> > recorded to the shadow key. This can cause numerous issues because 
> > users might suddenly lose their personal settings for 
> applications the 
> > next time they log in."
> >
> > I don't want to misquote Jeff, so you should read the document to 
> > understand the context in which he has written it.
> >
> > However, I've always understood that if a 2000 server is in install 
> > mode, then another user who is logged in at the same time and is 
> > making changes to his word settings (HKCU) are also written to the 
> > server's shadow key.
> > This is how I've always understood 2000 to work. I've never 
> tested it, 
> > because this is what I was taught all those years ago. So if I'm 
> > wrong, then I apologise.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeremy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              "Braebaum, Neil"
> >
> >              <Neil.Braebaum@li
> >
> >              ttlewoods.co.uk>
> >           To
> >              Sent by:                  <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >              thin-bounce@freel
> >           cc
> >              ists.org
> >
> >
> >      Subject
> >                                        [THIN] Re: scripting
> >
> >              01/12/2005 07:33
> >
> >              PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >              Please respond to
> >
> >                    thin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ...is the wrong answer.
> >
> > Their MAC addresses - most likely.
> >
> > But their IP addresses are internal class As - and I 
> suspect that it's 
> > quite feasible that somebody elsewhere in the world is 
> using the same 
> > internal class As somewhere.
> >
> > Well have to be careful, though - somebody, somewhere will 
> be getting 
> > grumpy about thread-drift and digression.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nick Smith
> > > Sent: 01 December 2005 11:31
> > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [THIN] Re: scripting
> > >
> > > Their IP numbers?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Braebaum, Neil [mailto:Neil.Braebaum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: 01 December 2005 11:25
> > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [THIN] Re: scripting
> > >
> > > Change user /install on Windows 2000 terminal servers is merely 
> > > session wide, not server wide.
> > >
> > > And I rather suspect there's nothing unique about my Windows 2000 
> > > terminal servers.
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders
> > > > Sent: 01 December 2005 11:24
> > > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [THIN] Re: scripting
> > > >
> > > > No...change user /install on a 2000 server is server wide,
> > > unless I'm
> > > > missing some hotfix or something. Can be very dangerous
> > > depending on
> > > > what is going on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >              "Braebaum, Neil"
> > > >
> > > >              <Neil.Braebaum@li
> > > >
> > > >              ttlewoods.co.uk>
> > > >           To
> > > >              Sent by:                  <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >
> > > >              thin-bounce@freel
> > > >           cc
> > > >              ists.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >      Subject
> > > >                                        [THIN] Re: scripting
> > > >
> > > >              01/12/2005 05:24
> > > >
> > > >              PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >              Please respond to
> > > >
> > > >                    thin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Comments inline...
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 
> Jeremy Saunders
> > > > > Sent: 30 November 2005 20:39
> > > > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: [THIN] Re: scripting
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes...true for 2003, but not 2000.
> > > >
> > > > True for both INCLUDING 2000.
> > > >
> > > > > However, regardless of the
> > > > > OS, the registry (from the shadow key) is not written
> > to the HKCU
> > > > > until the next logon, so registry changes will not be
> > > > updated, unless
> > > > > the key does not exist in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > No argument.
> > > >
> > > > > If
> > > > > it does not update existing keys until the next logon,
> > > then doesn't
> > > > > that have the potential to create a problem if the user
> > tries to
> > > > > relaunch the app before logging off and back on again?
> > > >
> > > > Well presumably, they wouldn't know anything about a new
> > > app, before a
> > > > login cycle - I mean it's possible for folder refresh to
> > > include some
> > > > newly created shortcuts, but I suspect it's the least 
> of peoples'
> > > > worries - whether existing sessions can access the changes.
> > > >
> > > > A new app or change in app may require login script
> > changes, or GPO
> > > > changes - which may take a while to refresh, anyways.
> > > >
> > > > > I'm not knocking the concept of what's trying to be
> > > > achieved. I think
> > > > > you would have to understand more about the individual
> > app first,
> > > > > because this process will not work for all. But I like
> > > the script :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >              "Braebaum, Neil"
> > > > >
> > > > >              <Neil.Braebaum@li
> > > > >
> > > > >              ttlewoods.co.uk>
> > > > >           To
> > > > >              Sent by:                  <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > >
> > > > >              thin-bounce@freel
> > > > >           cc
> > > > >              ists.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >      Subject
> > > > >                                        [THIN] Re: scripting
> > > > >
> > > > >              30/11/2005 10:28
> > > > >
> > > > >              PM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >              Please respond to
> > > > >
> > > > >                    thin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Install mode isn't server-wide.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's just active within the session that's using it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Neil
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > > > > [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> > Jeremy Saunders
> > > > > > Sent: 30 November 2005 12:59
> > > > > > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [THIN] Re: scripting
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Very neat, but how do you update the apps whilst people
> > > are still
> > > > > > logged in using other apps. Is this just used for updating
> > > > > files, and
> > > > > > therefore preventing the server from going into 
> install mode?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Kind regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Jeremy Saunders
> > > > > >  Senior Technical Specialist


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