[THIN] Re: VMWare Farm

Absoluly, I totally agree (although the SQL thing I would argue that you can
just as easily use the main sql server for this but I see your point :)  ).
There isn't anything wrong with using VMWare for production, it's just that
you ahve to realize the limitations that your working with.  The promise is
not all there yet but people ignore that until it's too late many times.


Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

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On 7/31/06, Selinger, Stephen <SSelinger@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: 

  Jeff,



Good points. I just wanted to make the point that ESX is being used for
production virtual machines. Although the story is still out if ESX 3.0will fix 
performance limitations of Citrix on ESX.  Currently I would say
that the best strategy would be to keep PS servers on physical boxes but
look at moving other services such as file servers, print servers, sql
servers, domain controllers and other core Citrix servers such as web
interface, CSG over to virtual machines while keeping in mind business goals
and SLAs






 ------------------------------

*From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
Behalf Of *Jeff Pitsch
*Sent:* July 31, 2006 12:29 PM

*To:* thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [THIN] Re: VMWare Farm



Hence my statement of lightly used servers.  Most companies care about
getting more users on a system vs less.  Now granted the OP didn't say how
many users, how many servers but in the end if you try to take an entire
farm and port it to VM's, you will typically end up using more VM's than
phsyical boxes.  VM's simply cannot get the same amount of users on a system
as physical hardware can at this point in time.  If you aren't utilizing
your servers to their full potential or even close to their potential, then
yes you could move to VM's and not notice much of difference.  But let's be
realistic for a moment, most people move to VM's to consolidate servers.  As
well, many many companies that do this with Presentation Server aren't using
their boxes to nearly their potential anyways so moving to VM's for that
reason is simply ridiculous.  I would be willing to bet that many PS
implementations have never taken the time to benchmark or stress test their
servers to see how many users they can get on a system.  They have no idea
what their sytems can handle and therefore over buy on the systems
required.  Now overbuying isn't necessarily a bad thing (for redundancy) but
I've been into many many companies that do it because they simply don't know
what their systems can handle.



whew, gotta get off that soapbox.  Sorry everyone



Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

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On 7/31/06, *Selinger, Stephen* <SSelinger@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Jeff,



Respectively I hope that you are only taking about highly utilized
production Citrix servers and not other servers as VMs. There are many
companies including where I work that have production VMs of various sorts
and flavours. ESX is absolutely a production ready product that is capable
of running production VMs. Yes there will be servers that have too high of
utilization to be running on ESX but there are tons of over powered
underutilized servers out there.






 ------------------------------

*From:* thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
Behalf Of *Jeff Pitsch
*Sent:* July 31, 2006 11:29 AM
*To: *thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [THIN] Re: VMWare Farm



I believe the general concesus is is that for production, VM's are not the
way.  Lightly used servers are fine, but for an entire farm the performance
is ismply not there yet.



Jeff Pitsch
Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server

Forums not enough?
Get support from the experts at your business
http://jeffpitschconsulting.com





On 7/31/06, *Eldon* < u2htdaab@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Currently running FR3 on 2000 SP4, and am beginning to evaluate and look
at building a separate Windows 2003 CPS 4.0 Farm on the VMWare ESX
platform.  Just wanted to get an idea if anyone on the list has something
similar in production today, what hardware you deployed to support published
apps on ESX and VMotion, and how you designed your farm (including Data
Collector and Database).  Also looking for Best Practices and Things to
Avoid!



Thanks!!



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