[THIN] Re: VMWare ESX

  • From: "ThinFan ." <thinfan1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:23:21 -0700

Jon,

I use VMWare ESX v2.x here. We have 8-way boxes and 4-way boxes all running ESX v2.x. On the 8-way servers (16GB Ram) I have up to 30+ Servers on them, and on the 4-way we are at around 30+ as well. Sound like a lot? It is, BUT, this isn't production, this is QA and TEST. VMWare is great for QA/STAGING and TEST environments! Performance isn't great, but doesn't have to be in these environments, but I can bring up a Server for testing as fast as I can copy a 6Gb file.

Is VMWare ESX good for production environments? Sure! BUT you have to know what you are trying to achieve with it. For production I would certainly not try and push 30+ Servers on a VMWare Box. I would also make sure you have a solid backup/dr plan ready and thought out. Are you going to backup full images of the machines (install backup into VMWare OS), or are you still going to do a file by file backup (install backup into Guest OS)? etc...

What Chris and others have stated is very true, ESX doesn't do any 'magic' when it comes to server consolidation. What it can do well is consolidate 'under utilized' servers. So for example if you have Server A, B, and C at 30 Percent utilized, you could put them on a VMWare box that will be at about 90 Percent+ utilized now.

The Server Console OS is really a VMWare modified Linux Kernel and it needs CPU as well, so it's all about management of your uitilzation and what makes best sense to consolidate together.

Personally my MetaFrame XP environment is fairly well utilized at the moment, and I would not consider moving these servers from physical to virtual. Your environment may differ and might be a good canidate.

ThinFan


From: "Luchette, Jon" <JLuchette@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: "'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 21:38:56 -0400

So you don't really think of it as a true server consolidation product? I
am getting conficting reports here. This is the question: Can I use VMWare
to squeeze more VM's/servers on the same hardware and expect equal
perfomance as would be on independent boxes? If not and I need to buy more
hardware to run multiple servers, it is sort of the same as buying more
physical servers. I can understand that, but then why does VMWare continue
to market this as a server consolidation / containment product when the real
advantages are focused on other areas like testing/R&D, and DR?


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lynch [mailto:lynch00@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 3:35 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

First off, you would not be re-using your existing servers to run ESX. If
you are, you are going to need to have more RAM, far more than 4GB of RAM if
you want to even get close to 7:1. If you really want to do this right, you
are going to want to look into a hardware platform, like the DL560 or DL580
(if you are wanting to stay within the Proliant line). And you would want
to get at least two host servers.


Now, I have had some conversations with a Citrix engineer, and this very
topic is quite a big one.  The whole idea to run multiple guests to better
utilize the hardware within a MF environment.  MS has made some steps to
improve resource utilization, but there are some limitations.  Plus, with
the ability for replication if you are using a SAN, DR is built-in with
almost instant recovery.

Chris


________________________________

        From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Luchette, Jon
        Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:00 PM
        To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
        Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX



        What do you think about an HP DL360 g3 with 2gb of RAM?  That's what
I've got, 6 of them...







        -----Original Message-----
        From: Claus, Brian [mailto:BClaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
        Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 4:55 PM
        To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX



        I also believe 10:1 is stretching it...but I've NEVER known a sales
rep to exaggerate   ;)



        I'd _guess_ that a HP DL360 G3 with dual processors and 4 GB of RAM
could safely do a 4:1 ratio.  My servers get hit pretty hard...40-50 users
concurrent with over 60 different published apps.



        ________________________________



                        Brian Claus, MCP, Network+, A+
        Network Administrator
        WESCO Distribution, Inc.
        225 West Station Square Drive, Suite 700

        Pittsburgh, PA 15219-1122
        Phone:  412-454-2412
        Fax:  412-454-2540
        bclaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bclaus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>


________________________________


-----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ryan Lambert Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 4:48 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX

                I was reading the product specs, and like you said... it
looks like he'd be able to get like 6-10:1 if the utilization was pretty
low... in theory. Then again, I don't have any real world experience with
managing the product, so I am sure the "YMMV" rule applies here. From what
he said, seems like these servers are getting pegged as it is... I'd think
10:1 was stretching it a bit.



                VMWare is something we've considered for our future plans...
so I am definitely interested in this topic...



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Steve Greenberg [mailto:steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
                Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 4:40 PM
                To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                Subject: [THIN] Re: VMWare ESX



                2-4 Virtual servers on one hardware box is my real world
experience with Citrix. Could be 6-10 servers if you are consolidating
servers with very low utlization....as always it depends on what apps you
are running.



                Steve Greenberg
                Thin Client Computing
                34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
                Scottsdale, AZ 85262
                (602) 432-8649
                (602) 296-0411 fax
                steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx





                ________________________________

                                From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Luchette, Jon
                Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:25 PM
                To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                Subject: [THIN] VMWare ESX

                Hello, we are looking at VMWare ESX.  I just got out of a
meeting with them and I was just wondering what any of you can tell me from
your experience to expect as a general rule of consolidation with Citrix
boxes.  Right know we have 6 duals, with 2 gb of RAM, and are getting about
30 users per box.  If we were to go with ESX, how many servers should we
plan on consolidating to?  Have any of you guys done something like this
recently?  We were told in the meeting that we could go anywhere in the
vicinity of 6:1 to even 10:1.  That seems a bit much to me, do any of you
have any good VMWare consolidation stories for me?



                Thanks in advance,



                /jL


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