[THIN] Re: Page file max out

I'm in good old "cold" Norway
coldest we had this winter was -10 Celsius (5Fahrenheit or so ??)...
and that only for a few days
most of the winter has been +5 - +10 Celsius (40-45 Fahrenheit or so??)


On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:31:54 -0500, Jan Broucinek <tinybeetle@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Right now it is 73F (22Celsius) outside, although it is a bit overcast. 
>  
> Ahhh, Florida in the winter. Almost makes the summers worth it...
>  
> Jan
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Pavlo Ignatusha 
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 9:30 AM
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Page file max out
> 
> We've got so much cold we decided to share with neighbours :)
>  
> This morning it was -32 Celsius  (-24 F) again. I'm tired of it.
>  
> Pav
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
> Of Tim Mangan
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 9:04 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Page file max out
> 
> 
> 
> We made you keep your hockey players this year so you send us all this snow
> and cold?
> 
>  
> ________________________________
> 
> 
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Pavlo Ignatusha
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:42 PM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Page file max out
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Tim,
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> your weather looks like our canadian winter to me :))
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> anyway these servers are already 2Gb each and 3rd is 4 Gb. If I add more
> memory should I make my page to match new memory? Currently I have 2Gb RAM
> and 1 pagefile on X:\ and 1 pagefile on Y:\ drives. There was a MS article
> way back that if you have 2 pagefiles like this one is used for apps and the
> other is used for OS. My hard drive subsystem on all servers is Intelor
> Compaq hardware RAID 5 on 3 disks (all SCSI).
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Pavlo Ignatusha
> Systems Network Coordinator
> Pembroke General Hospital
> Tel. (613) 732-3675 ext.6150
> Fax. (613) 732-9986
> www.pemgenhos.org
> 
> "All that matters is love and work" - Sigmund Freud.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
> Of Tim Mangan
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:23 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Page file max out
> 
> Yeah, I was away a while tooâ  Now I'm buried under snow (2.5 ft Monday,
> another foot coming down today) so I'm not going anywhere soon!
> 
>  
> 
> OK.  >From what you write, it looks mostly like a memory/paging issue â but
> you may want to look at file I/O as well.  All my CMC are now Hudson (it's a
> test lab) so I can't see any "page swaps 100%" in the CMC. I think that
> should really mean your committed memory is 100% of physical  memory â which
> matches what you wrote. 
> 
>  
> 
> By the way, just being near the physical memory limit will cause the system
> to start paging things out at a quicker rate, so as to ensure that
> "available memory" is reasonably available.  If paging is actually the
> problem, you could extend your memory from 1.5GB to 2GB.  The DLL rebasing
> add-on products (there are now many to choose from) can reduce your
> committed memory usage some as an alternative.  They help with non-office
> apps as Microsoft is usually pretty good about building there dlls.  How
> much reduction in memory?  You really have to run one for a month or so to
> see.  
> 
>  
> 
> But given that when you have the problem you are spiking only to
> 100-800/sec, I wonder about your file I/O system.  A slow disk might be the
> real problem.  You might want to look at that.  A slow disk drags
> performance down even if paging isn't happening.
> 
>  
> 
> PS:  It may be time to get a good VAR to take a look at your systems and
> make an educated recommendation.
> 
>  
> 
> Good luck!
> 
>  
> 
> tim 
> 
>  
> ________________________________
> 
> 
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Pavlo Ignatusha
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:33 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Page file max out
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Tim,
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Thanks for keeping this thread up. I was away for a few days and after was
> collecting some more data about my troubled servers
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> When I mention Page Swaps I referred to the CMC Advanced Load Evaluator that
> uses Page Swaps as 1 of the criterias. When I go to look at Load manager
> monitor in CMC I would see Page Swaps 100% with CPU and Memory not exceeding
> 20-30%
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> All my citix servers are W2K Standard Server SP4 with Citrix XPa FR3/SP3
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> At least on 1 server when it was in trouble "Total Commit Charge" exceeded
> "Total Memory counter. On the others they are pretty close but still "Total
> Commit Charge" is lower by 15-25 Mb. The only exception is that third server
> with 4Gb and HT enabled that "Total Memory" is 1.5Gb higher then "Total
> Commit Charge".
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> When servers are in OK shape "Memory:Pages/Sec" averages about 20.000 with
> occasional spikes up to 200.000 pages
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> When the trouble is there "Memory:Pages/Sec" averages over 100.000 with
> spikes up to 800.000 pages
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> I noticed that when in trouble I have about 140 users spread over these 3
> servers (From licensing in CMC). We are published application shop so 1 user
> may have sessions with few servers as a result of load balancing. This mean
> that I may have 50-60 user sessions on each server. Most of our users my be
> considered as heavy users. Does this indicates I need another server?
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> I've been reading the thread and I would like to point out I only have 1
> server out of 3 that can use HT (and has it on). This server behaves in CMC
> just the same as others (despite having 2 times memory (4Gb instead of 2Gb)
> and faster CPU). The memory on it used only a little more then 2Gb.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pavlo Ignatusha
> Systems Network Coordinator
> Pembroke General Hospital
> Tel. (613) 732-3675 ext.6150
> Fax. (613) 732-9986
> www.pemgenhos.org
> 
> "All that matters is love and work" - Sigmund Freud.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf
> Of Tim Mangan
> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 8:29 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Page file max out
> 
> Pavlo,
> 
>  
> 
> I looked back at the thread, because I thought you mentioned Win2K servers,
> but I couldn't find the reference.  If so, Hyperthreading should be disabled
> (Hyperthreading is OK on Win2k03 and WinXP).  I have not seen it cause these
> symptoms â but who knows?  Hyperthreading is disabled in the BIOS.
> 
>  
> 
> Originally, you mentioned that "Page Swaps 100%".  What does that mean?  So
> let's explore if that is really what is going on.
> 
>  
> 
> If I thought paging was an issue, I would first look to the Windows Task
> Manager to see if the "Total Commit Charge" exceeds the "Physical Memory". 
> Constant paging will not occur until physical memory is exceeded.  In the
> numbers you show, it looks like (at least for that snapshot) you are below
> this threshold.  So I would use the performance monitor to watch these
> values.  (Note: you should run the Performance Monitor GUI from another
> system and gather stats remotely).  Next, I would look a the Performance
> Manager "Memory:Pages/Sec".  This counter includes paging of code/data pages
> of applications, plus paging due to application file system cache.  The
> counter is in pages per second.  So how many pages per second, when the
> problem is evident and when it is not?
> 
>  
> 
> Tim Mangan
> 
>  
> ________________________________
> 
> 
> From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Pavlo Ignatusha
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:17 AM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: Page file max out
> 
>  
> 
> 
> OK,
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> I spent some time in the Perfmon and here is what I found while CMC reports
> full load based on Page Swap:
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 1. Perfmon %DPC and %Interrupt for each processor are almost flat (1-8%)
> 
> 
> 2. Perfmon Process Page Faults/sec shows no single leader.  A lot of apps
> and windows services spike every so often but no one is claiming High page
> Faults for longer then 2 sec. The most Page Faults were reported for 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> WinMgmt
> 
> 
> some instances of Dynamics
> 
> 
> some instances of Winlogon
> 
> 
> some instances of Winword
> 
> 
> some instances of guiengine (SQL client for patient information system)
> 
> 
> some instances of Outlook
> 
> 
> some instances of Accuterm97
> 
> 
> spoolsv
> 
> 
> some instances of CSRSS, wfcshell
> 
> 
> naPrdMgr
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 3. Taskmon stats:
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Totals
> 
> 
> Handles 62313
> 
> 
> Threads 3946
> 
> 
> Processes 334
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Physical Memory (K)
> 
> 
> Total 2096604
> 
> 
> Available 585365
> 
> 
> System Cache 362476
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Kernel Memory (K)
> 
> 
> Total 211100
> 
> 
> Paged 136364
> 
> 
> NonPaged 74740
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Commit Charge (K)
> 
> 
> Total 1841980
> 
> 
> Limit 7162272
> 
> 
> Peak 2428548
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Since I do not see a single source of the problem then maybe I'm running out
> of resources? But interestingly I have 3rd server HP DL 380 with
> Hyperthreading on and more memory but it is still hosting almost same number
> of users and is getting maxed out on Page swap in CMC just as well. I'm
> really puzzled. 
> 
> Thanks for any help with this,
> 
> Pavlo Ignatusha
> Systems Network Coordinator
> Pembroke General Hospital
> Tel. (613) 732-3675 ext.6150
> Fax. (613) 732-9986
> www.pemgenhos.org
> 
> "All that matters is love and work" - Sigmund Freud.


-- 
Nicolai Imset
CCA
NT Consultant
-------
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