[THIN] Re: Opteron processors

In our recent Intel roadmap session Intel stated that in the 2006-2008
(don't quote me on the dates) they are planning to make the IA64 the
standard processor architecture. Apparently that is when the 64 bit and
32 bit processors will be price comparable.

Mark E. Schill, CCA
BellSouth Technology Group
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Andrew Rogers
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:06 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors

I was under the impression MS had said to both AMD and Intel something
alon=3D
g the lines of "we're only writing ONE 64bit OS for your mainstream
chips, =3D
which weve already done, so anything you make better work on it"
? :)

ooh, heres a quote from an article, although not the one i thought it
was..
"Reports suggest that Microsoft, which is committed to producing a
64-bit v=3D
ersion of Windows for the Itanium processor, balked at supporting two
more =3D
64-bit versions, for AMD's x86-64 and Intel's Yamhill. (Microsoft once
supp=3D
orted Windows NT ports for a number of processors including MIPS, Alpha
and=3D
 PowerPC). AMD founder Jerry Sanders extracted a commitment from Bill
Gates=3D
 to port Windows to x86-64, although we're still waiting for this to
appear=3D
." (theregister.co.uk)

and

"Microsoft's Steve Ballmer announced that the company was today shipping
th=3D
e latest beta build of Windows with support for the Xeon processor's
64-bit=3D
 addressing extensions."

Andrew
--o--

>>> tmangan@xxxxxxxxxxxx 21/04/04 23:39:06 >>>
Microsoft has two versions of the 64 bit server OS in beta right now.
One is
for the Intel 64 bit solution, and the other is for the 64/32 bit
solution
that AMD has now and Intel will have soon.  The real question on support
is
whether Microsoft will continue to support the 64-bit only version in
the
long run.  I'm sure that those owning those boxes today are asking
Microsoft
that question.

As I indicated earlier, I am very curious on what gets left out of the
64/32
solution.  For example, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that 64/32/16
isn't
there.  And I am concerned over app compatibility for apps, bust mostly
those that have kernel driver components. I think that those vendors
need a
recompile -- and maybe a few code lines to change too.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:03 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Do you know what happens with Intel releases their 32/64 platform soon?
=3D3D=3D
 (
I think it code named Nakoma or something like that?) I wonder if they
=3D3D
will all require separate versions of the 64 bit OS?

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D3D
Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:59 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Yes, you can roam back and forth between 32- and 64-bit environments,
=3D3D a=3D
nd
your profiles, GPOs, login scripts, etc, etc, will all work.

>From a "logical" standpoint, there's no real difference to most =3D3D
components
between the two.

The only downside to 64-bit that I've seen is that 64-bit Windows =3D3D
requi=3D
res
64-bit hotfixes, etc. A year ago there was some delay when patches were
available between the two platforms. (TSE revisited?) Of course, that
=3D3D w=3D
as
for Itanium and no one cared. Since Opteron seems to be more popular =
=3D3D
(a=3D
nd
waaaaaaay cheaper), this will probably change.

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =
=3D3D
videos, and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D3D
Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:46 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


That is great news. Can the profiles be roaming and share between 32 and
=3D3D
=3D3D3D3D
64 bit envirnoments?

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:26 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Good news! In the case of 64-bit Windows, all those components =3D3D3D3D
(profiles, printers, shares, etc, etc) have also been compiled for =3D3D
64-b=3D
it
since =3D3D3D3D they're part of the OS.

About a year ago I did a fairly large rollout of pure Windows 2003
=3D3D3D3D
Terminal Services on Itanium boxes (with the 64-bit version of Windows
=3D3D
2003
for Itanium).

Like I said before, MetaFrame itself did NOT work. However, all of the
Windows components worked great. AD, GPOs, profiles, home drives, etc,
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D etc, were flawless. In fact, users didn't even know their =
remote
TS=3D
 =3D3D
sessions =3D3D3D3D were running on a 64-bit OS.

All of the "standard" windows stuff, system variables, system32 folder,
=3D3D
=3D3D3D3D IE, temp folders, etc, etc are the same. Logon scripts,
kitxtart...
all =3D3D that stuff works fine in production on Itanium-based 64-bit
Windows
2003 =3D3D =3D3D3D3D Terminal Servers.

I don't think that our whole TS world is going to instantly shift to =
=3D3D
=3D
=3D3D3D3D
64-bit. However, for those people who have large servers who are
experiencing =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D PTE limits, etc, Opteron is going to be =
hella
=3D
=3D3D cool!

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =
=3D3D
=3D
=3D3D3D3D
videos, and product reviews.

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:09 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


I am mainly skeptical about things potential issues with user settings,
application of policies, accessing network printere, etc. I suspect that
=3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D you will be able to run 32 under 64, but I have =
to
be s=3D
hown
it =3D3D to =3D3D3D3D believe =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D that it would =
integrate
nic=3D
ely in
real =3D3D world environments.

Think of the whole history of the "WOW" subsystem and running DOS in
Windows......

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D3D3D3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Brian Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:00 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Yeah, everyone was skeptical of this, but it seems to be true. ("It" =
=3D3D
=3D
=3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D3D being that 32-bit apps really do run as fast on a 64-bit =
OS
on
Opteron =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D as they =3D3D3D3D3D3D do on a "regular" 32-bit =
=3D3D
processor/OS.) I
won't post a link =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D here since =3D3D3D3D3D3D it'll get
mangled.. =3D
=3D3D Just
do a Google search for Opteron 64 =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D bit performance and
you'll =3D
find
=3D3D tons of stuff. Ars had a great review. So =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D did =
Ace's.

64-bit Windows Server 2003 for Opteron processors is in public beta now
=3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D and will be released at the same time as SP1 for
Win200=3D
3.

As for testing... "Yes!" (That was my original point of this thread way
=3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D back
when.) I have an Opteron server on order. (It should be here next
week.) I have the beta of 64-bit Windows Server 2003 for Opteron. I have
MetaFrame. I'll post the test results as soon as they're ready.

Should be fun!

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =
=3D3D
=3D
=3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D3D videos, and product reviews. -----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D Behalf Of Steve Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:40 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


I accept that theoretically this is possible, I am just very skeptical
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =
that it
could a=3D
ctually
work =3D3D in practise and in =3D3D3D3D standard production =3D3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D=3D
3D3D3D
environments. =3D3D What is the status of 64 bit =3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =
Windows?
Would=3D
 it be
a simple enough test =3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D to get our =
hands
=3D3D=3D
3D on
=3D3D3D3D WIN 64 code and try =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D running =3D3D3D3D3D3D =
32bit apps
on=3D
 64 bit
=3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D Terminal =3D3D3D3D =3D3D services?

Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax=3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D20
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20



-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =
Behalf Of
Brian=3D
 Madden
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:26 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
Subject: [THIN] Re: Opteron processors


Yes, I am definitely saying that you can run a 64-bit OS with 32-bit =
=3D3D
=3D
=3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D apps on an Opteron. This is why the =
Opteron
is =3D
=3D3D so
sweet!

It basically has three modes of operation:

1.) 32-bit OS (or 16-bit or whatever) You can install Win95 on an =3D3D
=3D3D3D=3D
3D3D
=3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D Opteron. Or DOS.

2.) 64-bit OS with 32-bit apps. This is called "legacy" mode.

3.) 64-bit OS with 64-bit apps. For now the only 64/64 combinations are
things like 64-bit SUSE with 64-bit Unreal Tournament server... stuff
=3D3D =3D
=3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D =
like that.

But, you totally, absolutely, 100% can run 32-bit apps on a 64-bit OS on
=3D3D
=3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D an Opteron will no performance =
loss.
Th=3D
e =3D3D
question is whether MetaFrame =3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D will install as =
an
"app=3D
" and
work =3D3D fine being =3D3D3D 32-bit =3D3D3D3D or whether it's tied too
tightly i=3D
nto the
OS, and =3D3D therefore must be 64-bit.

Brian

Brian Madden
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=3D20
+1.202.302.3657
Visit www.brianmadden.com for in-depth Citrix, Terminal Server, and
server-based computing news and analysis, white papers, downloadable =
=3D3D
=3D
=3D3D3D3D
=3D3D3D3D3D3D =3D3D3D3D3D3D3D3D videos, and product reviews.

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