[THIN] Re: OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
- From: "Evan Mann" <emann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:06:59 -0400
I'd rather have a RAID5 then a RAID1 even if I can get more capacity.
It's not always about capacity. Most of my 1750's are resource type
machines and don't even use up the 73x3gig RAID5 array's that I have.
Oh well, I guess Dell is looses that edge on 1U's in having 3 HDDs,
bummer.
I don't see why they say it will be better performance. RAID5 is faster
then RAID1.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Luchette, Jon
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:58 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
...just got my answer straight from the horses mouth. The reason they
took out the 3rd drive is 2 fold: first reason is because they weren't
getting proper front to back airflow required by the new Nocona chip and
it's cooling requirements with 3 drives in, so they had to rip out the
middle drive. The second reason is because they know around the end of
this year, they'll be supporting new 300 GB SCSI drives in the 1850 so
they figure that in most scenarios you'll get more capacity and better
performance with a 2x300gb r1 config than in a 3x146gb r5 config...
And yes, the 1850 will be replacing the 1750 altogether.
/jL
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Mann [mailto:emann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:23 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
None at all, same with my 1650's. The oldest one has been running 24x7
for about 19 months now.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Luchette, Jon
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:12 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
Have you ever had any problems with 3 drive configurations in your 1750s
due to heat or anything similar?
/jL
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Mann [mailto:emann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:58 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
I just looked at the 1850 for the first time yesterday and it's support
EMT64T on Xeon's, which I believe is optimizations for > 4gb usage,
related to the bus and/or processor I assume. The systems support 8GB
total and uses a new PERC4ei card I've never seen before. I'd imagine
it only uses 2 drives instead of 3 because they either were generating
too much heat with new features or they needed the room for other
things. Hard to say for sure, but I hope they don't discontinue
1750's. The 3 HDDs is a big bonus IMO.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Luchette, Jon
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 9:48 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
Why does the Dell 1750 hold 3 drives when the 1850 only holds 2? Isn't
the 1850 the new generation 1750???? I am an HP guy but also looking
into other options, trying to put together a matrix. What is the
difference between the 1750 and the 1850? I thought it was like the
DL360 G3, and DL360 G4 respectively?
/jL
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Mann [mailto:emann@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:12 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
I'm a Dell exclusive shop using primarily 1650, 1750, and 2650's and
PE700's (small baby servers) with Onboard RAID controllers. Most are
PERC3 flavor, a mixture of Adaptec and LSI cards. These newer machines
have not had any RAID issues that required a hardware swap, but there
have been some "actions" that required firmware and driver upgrades to
prevent possible data corruption and loss.
Some of the older servers that used older flavors of cards, and some off
the PCI based add-on cards (multi channel for example) have gone through
some actual recalls over the years. In general though, any major RAID
related issue has been a controller firmware upgrade that fixes the
problem.
I've yet to ever have a firmware upgrade fail.
The Dell OpenManage Server Administrator is OK, but they lack basic
built in functionality to be able to e-mail you when an alarm is
triggered (say, high temp threshold warning). You have to call some
external program to do that work for you. They really need to buid in
an internal device to do this for you IMO.
The Dell OpenManage Array Manager is a very easy to use application and
has always worked for me without issues when needed.
The Dell OpenManager Server Assistant (for loading up servers) recently
moved into the v8.0 version and is Linux based. The old versions were
NT based. The new Linux ones are extremely easy to use and make loading
up a server (from scratch) very easy. On my 1750's and PE700s (the most
recent server Dell has that I buy) I've yet to have to add any drivers,
just update a few RAID drivers to the newest version after install.
They update the Server Assistant CD fairly agressively as well.
I've never used anything else but Dell and their server bawed management
apps, so I can't comment as to if HP/Compaq's are equal, worse, or
better.
If your looking at Citrix applications, then Blade's are on your plate
I'd imagine, and Dell's current Blade solution only offers P3 1.4ghz.
Everyone else is offering P4 range chips, so that's one thing Dell
really needs to improve upon.
The 1U 1750 holds 3 HDDs, and I believe the 1U HP/Compaq boxes only hold
2 (don't quote me on that). So keep that in mind. That's a difference
of RAID1 or RAID5 in a 1U server.
Dell Server Support is very good IMO, Gold and Platinum support that is.
The regular support guys make you jump through too many hoops when your
troubleshooting a server. But if you Pony up a little extra $$ for Gold
or Platinum support, then if you tell them there is a problem, they
generally always believe you and don't make you waste valuable time. We
get Gold 4 hour OnSite support on all servers. I've had parts in < 2
hours same day delivered by Courier for self-install. I've yet to have
to require a tech onsite in 4 hours.
I just noticed Dell now has new 1850's and 2850's with P4 Xeon's with
EMT64T, FYI.
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Parker, Dennis
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 1:59 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] OT: Dell and HP (Compaq) Servers
We are in the process of comparing hardware and would like to add some
testimonial to our comparison to justify one over the other. What I am
looking for are *facts* based on personal experience with these two
platforms mainly in the areas of support and hardware issues.
If you want to limit it even more, I would like to know about the RAID
controller issues, which I have seen many come across for the DELL
servers and would like to know if there have been resolution to the
issues and how recent they have been. If people have been having the
same issues with the
HP(Compaq) servers I would like that information as well.
We are currently an HP(Compaq) shop but evaluating our options between
Dell and HP. Not even looking at IBM for various reasons.
Again, I am looking for facts, not opinion...we are opinionated enough
already. :-)
Thanks,
Dennis Parker, MCSE, CCA
Senior Systems Analyst
Fiserv EFT/CNS
4550 SW Macadam Ave, Ste 100
Portland, Or. 97239
Direct: 503-274-6785
Fax: 503-274-6619
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