[THIN] Re: Install Order

Ironically, we tried to do a re-map of driver on a 3.0/2K3 client system
recently and it failed miserably with several core services having
unresolvable pathing issues.

Citrix was of no help (everyone I had spoke with hadn't even tried it on
Win2K3) and after hacking away most of the problems we still felt
uncomfortable with the result.

While I understand Jeremy's point about consistency of method I have found
quite the opposite to work for me- being ultimately flexible and willing to
change as often as necessary to assure the best end result seems to work
best in my practise.

Quite an interesting difference of viewpoint and well worth discussing !

Regards, 


Steve Greenberg
Thin Client Computing
34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
Scottsdale, AZ 85262
(602) 432-8649
(602) 296-0411 fax 
steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Jeremy Saunders
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 6:37 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order





You see that's my point Greg. Because of bad experiences in the past you
take the stance that you don't remap drives. But did you actually ever
narrow the problem down and conclude that it was an issue with the drive
remap util? If it was, did you chat to Citrix about it and has Citrix
addressed your issues in newer releases? By saying that you don't remap
drives, you are forcing a decision upon your customers. Sure, it really only
effects that that use Client Drive Mappings, but isn't that being negative?

If I had to contact an application developer, I would never start off by
telling them it's on a Citrix server. Just tell them Terminal Server, and do
all your initial testing with RDP. They may of had bad experiences in the
past, or dealt with an Integrator that didn't do justice to the Citrix
product, and therefore there immediate reaction is "we don't support that!".
They also may not understand the technology.

Steve, the design and installation will certainly change, but the
methodology should always remain the same...perhaps only changing with new
product features. As Citrix say...following a tried and tested methodology
will ensure a successful implementation time and time again.

Issues discussed in this thread comes down to understanding how to deal with
application integration, assessment, compatibility, installation,
configuration, and even load managed groups.

Please understand that this is not an argument, just a healthy discussion
between people with different views. And these views have been formed from
past experiences. There is nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that
the Citrix MetaFrame product(s) have matured very well over the years. I
find it such an exciting product suite to work with.

Anyway...we continue to digress from the original question.



                                                                           
             Greg Reese                                                    
             <gareese@xxxxxxxx                                             
             m>                                                         To 
             Sent by:                  thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx                  
             thin-bounce@freel                                          cc 
             ists.org                                                      
                                                                   Subject 
                                       [THIN] Re: Install Order            
             23/12/2004 01:25                                              
             AM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
                   thin                                                    
                                                                           
                                                                           




It was my understanding there would be no math :^)

This is why I don't remap drives.  Just discussing it becomes more pain than
it is worth.  You guys are killing me.

I install Citrix last so I avoid having a problem with an app and the
developer coming back with "Oh, you're using Citrix.  ummm... We don't
support that, it won't work"  When I know it will work and just need to know
more about it so it can be tweakd up.  Sometimes an app gets installed
after.  As long as it all works in the end.

Greg


On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:29:31 +0000, Tom Howarth <tom.howarth@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> 1+1 always equaled 2 when I went to School ??????????
>
>
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:04:55 +0000 GMT, Steve Parr 
> <sparr@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> > There will always be best practises for installing, guaranteed.(Why
else would you subscribe to a list service such as this one) Even in a less
complicated non-TS/Cxitrix environment there are best practises you would
want to follow. Yes some installs will require unique things that need to be
done but on the other side of things there will always be items that should
be followed (unless the uniqeness of the app prevents following a specific
type of best practise)as well regardless of how unique the app may happen to
be. To argue that is to like trying to deny 1+1 equals 1. I see no point.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:25:42
> > To:<thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> >
> > We tailor each installation, and the precise methodology we use, to 
> > the environment we are working on. What I said in the original post 
> > is that there is no absolute best practise and that lately we are 
> > tending to
install
> > the apps first.
> >
> > What exactly is wrong with that? Isn't it obvious that this means 
> > that
we
> > have done it many different ways and don't have one rigid way of 
> > doing
it?
> >
> > Steve Greenberg
> > Thin Client Computing
> > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
> > Scottsdale, AZ 85262
> > (602) 432-8649
> > (602) 296-0411 fax
> > steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> > On
Behalf
> > Of RMC - Brian Hill
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:03 AM
> > To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> >
> > I have to agree.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeremy Saunders [mailto:jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 7:34 PM
> > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > Aren't you then introducing two test plans? One pre Citrix 
> > installation
and
> > the other post Citrix installation. As you said, you test all your 
> > apps before you install Citrix. Surely you would then test them all 
> > after installing Citrix because the server states have changed. So 
> > how does
this
> > work for a Pilot rollout?
> >
> > I believe that you should be more trusting of a product that has
matured
> > very well over the years. You should also be confident in your own
skills
> > (and the skills of your team) to fault find any issues.
> >
> > If you do the Citrix Core Technologies and Architecture course
(CTX-6100),
> > you'll understand how Citrix technology fits in with the elements of 
> > Terminal Services, such as the kernel, drivers, etc.
> >
> > I'm not having a go at you, nor do I mean to be disrespectful, I 
> > just
think
> > your theory is outdated. But if that works for you and provides you
with a
> > method of deploying successful Citrix solutions, then don't let me 
> > talk
you
> > out of that comfort zone.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeremy.
> >
> >             "Steve Greenberg"
> >             <steveg@thinclien
> >             t.net>
To
> >             Sent by:                  <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >             thin-bounce@freel
cc
> >             ists.org
> >
Subject
> >                                       [THIN] Re: Install Order
> >             22/12/2004 05:49
> >             AM
> >
> >             Please respond to
> >                   thin
> >
> > This is a lot more than theory, this has been done on many, many
servers in
> > the field!
> >
> > Your point about drive re-mapping is a good one, you should install 
> > Metaframe first if you plan to re-map, it certainly will break apps 
> > if
you
> > try to do it later....
> >
> > Steve Greenberg
> > Thin Client Computing
> > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
> > Scottsdale, AZ 85262
> > (602) 432-8649
> > (602) 296-0411 fax
> > steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> > On
Behalf
> > Of Jeremy Saunders
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 2:26 PM
> > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> >
> > Good in theory, but not practical for a standard install method. 
> > What
if you
> > are remapping the drives? This should be done before you install the
apps,
> > so that you can test for application compatility, etc. Citrix do not 
> > interfere with the RDP protocol, so you can still test things using 
> > RDP
to
> > eliminate Citrix as an issue at a later date.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Jeremy
> >
> > Jeremy Saunders
> > Senior Systems Engineer
> > "ITS - passionate about winning"
> >
> > IBM Logicalis (Integrated
> > Technology Services)
> > Level 2, 1060 Hay Street
> > West Perth, WA 6005, AUSTRALIA
> >
> > Visit us at
> > http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its
> >
> > Phone:  132 426                    Fax:      08 9261 8536
> > Mobile:  TBA                       E-mail:
> >                                    jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >             "Steve Greenberg"
> >             <steveg@thinclien
> >             t.net>
To
> >             Sent by:                  <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >             thin-bounce@freel
cc
> >             ists.org
> >
Subject
> >                                       [THIN] Re: Install Order
> >             22/12/2004 02:10
> >             AM
> >
> >             Please respond to
> >                   thin
> >
> > There doesn't seem to be an absolute best practise here, but we tend 
> > nowadays to install all the apps and do initial testing with RDP, 
> > then install Metaframe after. This way you can eliminate any issues 
> > possibly introduced by Metaframe (pretty rare though). Also, this 
> > way you can
capture
> > an image which can be deployed later by adding it to the domain and 
> > installing Metaframe via script. We like this better because it is
cleaner
> > to install Metaframe anew on each server and join the farm "fresh".
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steve Greenberg
> > Thin Client Computing
> > 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd. suite D8453
> > Scottsdale, AZ 85262
> > (602) 432-8649
> > (602) 296-0411 fax
> > steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> > On
Behalf
> > Of Joanne Determann
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:37 AM
> > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: Install Order
> >
> > I asked that question too. I gathered from the responses it doesn't
really
> > matter. I installed all the app after MF and my newest 2003 MF 
> > server
is
> > cruising along just peachy.
> >
> > Now I'm rebuilding an older one. JD
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Greg Watts [mailto:cgwatts@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:57 AM
> > To: Thin
> > Subject: [THIN] Install Order
> >
> > Is it recommended to install applications before or after installing
MPS
> > 3.0?  What is the best practice? TIA
> >
> > --
> > Greg Watts
> > cgwatts@xxxxxxxxx
> > cgwatts@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > 410.274.3076 (cell)
> > ********************************************************
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