[THIN] Re: How many users will go on my server
- From: "Bernd Harzog" <Bernd.Harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:12:44 -0500
Since we are in the business of helping people get more concurrent users =
per server, my answer would be 30 per server with 2 GB of RAM, and 40 =
with 4GB of RAM. That is what we see every day when we ask the question =
of our customers, "Where are you right now". That leaves headroom for =
peak utilization periods, and headroom in the form of redundancy in case =
of server failures.
Note that if what I have said above is the average, the distribution =
outside of the average is wide. We know people who can get 8 concurrent =
users on a brand new dual with 4 GB of RAM on W2003. We also know people =
who can get over 100 concurrent users on the same hardware. It really =
depends upon exactly what applications are on the server, and how those =
applications are used.
Let me give you an interesting example of how, "How they are used" =
matters. We have a customer who rolled out an application whose primary =
purpose was interactive users doing customer service. Everything was =
fine at 40 users per server. Then they upgraded the application an put a =
new module in it that allowed managers to run reports that summed up =
what had gotten done in the most recent day/week/month/quarter. The user =
count grew by a very small number of managers, but as these managers =
fired off reports, the reporting engine (Crystal Reports) used up a fair =
amount of CPU, and made performance for the interactive users suffer. =
So, all of a sudden they were at 30 users per server because they had to =
leave headroom for the reports run by the managers. By the way, TScale =
got them back up to 40 by automatically managing the CPU used by the =
reporting engine so that it did not hurt the interactive users.
Cheers,
Bernd Harzog
CEO
RTO Software, Inc.
bernd.harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx
678-455-5506 x701
www.rtosoft.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Smith [mailto:nick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 8:43 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: How many users will go on my server
OK, I know people hate this, and the real answer is; go test it.
However, can anyone give a wild guesstimate of how many concurrent you
would get on a modern server running Windows 2003, with a published
desktop and just MS Office - Word, Excel, Outlook. Assume 2*2.4Ghz
Processors, 4GB RAM. 10? 50? 200? 2000? <Grins hopefully>? And what
happens if yo go dwon to 2GB or 1 GB RAM?
NIck
-----Original Message-----
From: Bernd Harzog [mailto:Bernd.Harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: 23 February 2004 13:36
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: How many users will go on my server
A word of warning on the Citrix test kit and anything else that uses =
=3D3D
scripts. Unless you know (or can find out) what the mix of usage is for
=3D3D each application (what is the distribution and intensity of =3D
activities
=3D3D within Notes), and the mix of usage is across Notes, the Office =
=3D3D
applications and SAP, it is going to be very hard to use a test tool to
=3D3D accurately simulate what is going to happen in your production =
=3D3D
environment.
A word of warning about sizing tools offered by any vendor that is =3D3D
selling anything except for a sizing tool. They are designed to show =
=3D3D
their own products in the best light possible. The scripts in the Citrix
=3D3D test kit exercise a minimum set of functionality across Word, =
Excel,
and =3D3D Notepad. A heavy user is defined as someone who types a lot -
which =3D3D leaves out the question of what happens when someone fires =
off =3D
a
report =3D3D in a line of business application. The same thing goes for =
=3D
any
sizing =3D3D tool offered by a server vendor - remember the objective of =
=3D
the
tool is =3D3D to help that vendor sell servers - not tell you the truth
about how many =3D3D users their server can support.
There are others here (like Ron and Brian) who have huge amounts of =
=3D3D
field experience answering this question - but my answer is to put a =
=3D3D
subset of the farm in production with real production users. Only =3D3D
through this method can you KNOW what is going to happen.
Finally, with respect to how you know when a server is at capacity, let
=3D3D me issue one other cautionary note. You (IMHO) cannot tell when a
server =3D3D is at capacity by looking at any utilization metrics (like =
=3D
CPU
%). The =3D3D reason for this is that (again IMHO) you cannot model
degradation in =3D3D responsiveness to users from utilization metrics. =
You
can have a fully =3D3D responsive server with a CPU utilization of 100%, =
=3D
and
one that is =3D3D totally unusable with a CPU utilization of 20%.
Cheers,
Bernd Harzog
CEO
RTO Software, Inc.
bernd.harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx
678-455-5506 x701
www.rtosoft.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kenzig http://thethin.net =3D
[mailto:jimkenz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 7:55 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: How many users will go on my server
The citrix server test kit from http://www.citrix.com/cdn and the =3D3D
Terminal server capacity tools at:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/tools/hotfixes/tscp
t=3D3D
-o.
asp
Claudio Rodriquez wrote a little utility for a Pocket/Palm PC at
http://www.cewindows.net/applications/tssizer.htm
Here is an article for 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=3D3D3Da2ae95da-b=
e5=3D
6
-=3D3D
4495-
9fb5-e4b7170b33d9&DisplayLang=3D3D3Den
(will probably wrap, copy it all)
See the MS FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/community/centers/terminal/te
r=3D3D
min
al_faq.mspx
Article on Thinclient.net by Steve and Christa
http://www.thinclient.net/technology/Server_Sizing.htm
If it is HP servers and you are registered with Active answers HP has a
=3D3D tool to size with their servers on a link on
http://activeanswers.compaq.com/ActiveAnswers/Render/1,1027,4825-6-100-2
2=3D3D
5-1
,00.htm
Older white paper on sizing NT 4.0 and Compaq servers with some =3D3D
relevence
ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/partners/microsoft/infolib/ecg0680698.pdf
Brian Madden had a paper too (and also writes about it in his book I
believe) at brianmadden.com And he wrote a performance tuning one to use
once your server is set up to increase amount of users at
http://www.rtosoft.com/pages/whitepaper_ts_fbm.asp
Regards,
Jim Kenzig
http://thin.net
-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 6:32 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] How many users will go on my server
Problem:
I have 2000 users. How many terminal servers do I need.
Servers are W2003, XPe, dual Xeon 2.8, 4Gb RAM All users receive a
published desktop. Standard applications are MS =3D3D Offic=3D3D3D e & =
Lotus
Notes, other applications include SAP.
I need to simulate a typical user load - users using applications in a =
=3D
=3D3D
"t=3D3D3D ypical" way, and automate this. Then, I need to test various =
=3D3D
applications=3D3D3D like Appsense or TScale to see what sort of =3D
improvement
they make on =3D3D per=3D3D3D formance.
So:
What can I use to simulate userload of between 40 and 200 users making =
=3D
=3D3D
ty=3D3D3D pical use of our application set?
What criteria should I use to determine that the server is running at =
=3D
=3D3D
"fu=3D3D3D ll" capacity?
What other criteria might I use to fine tune these servers?
How did you do it?
What were your experiences?
What applications might I consider to get the servers running more =3D3D
effici=3D3D3D ently?
Regards,
Jeremy Thomas
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--> vc-iMonitor - Performance Monitoring, Control & Reporting
--> vc-iControl - Desktop & Start Menu Management & Reporting
--> vc-iMapper - Drive, Printer & COM Management & Reporting
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