[THIN] Re: How many users will go on my server

"Unless you know what the mix of usage is for each application it is goin=
g to be very hard to use a test tool to accurately simulate what is going=
 to happen in your production environment."

I need to simulate something. For instance, I need to be able to run 10 "=
office" sessions, and scale that up to about 100, and see how performance=
 behaves. If I then turn off spellchecking, how does that improve perform=
ance? If I optimise the server with a certain parameter or software, what=
 difference does that make?

"but my answer is to put a=20
subset of the farm in production with real production users. Only=20
through this method can you KNOW what is going to happen."

True, but...
- If I put an untested, "tampered with" server into production, all hell =
will break loose.
- I need to try different things. While users provide the ultimate accept=
ance, they don't provide me with any sort of scientific measurement or ob=
jective baseline against which to measure
- If I know what tweaks I can put in place for which applications, I have=
 a fighting chance of making some sort of recommendation that might get a=
ccepted.


Regards,

Jeremy Thomas

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernd Harzog [mailto:Bernd.Harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: maandag 23 februari 2004 14:36
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: How many users will go on my server


A word of warning on the Citrix test kit and anything else that uses =3D
scripts. Unless you know (or can find out) what the mix of usage is for =3D
each application (what is the distribution and intensity of activities =3D
within Notes), and the mix of usage is across Notes, the Office =3D
applications and SAP, it is going to be very hard to use a test tool to =3D
accurately simulate what is going to happen in your production =3D
environment.

A word of warning about sizing tools offered by any vendor that is =3D
selling anything except for a sizing tool. They are designed to show =3D
their own products in the best light possible. The scripts in the Citrix =
=3D
test kit exercise a minimum set of functionality across Word, Excel, and =
=3D
Notepad. A heavy user is defined as someone who types a lot - which =3D
leaves out the question of what happens when someone fires off a report =3D
in a line of business application. The same thing goes for any sizing =3D
tool offered by a server vendor - remember the objective of the tool is =3D
to help that vendor sell servers - not tell you the truth about how many =
=3D
users their server can support.

There are others here (like Ron and Brian) who have huge amounts of =3D
field experience answering this question - but my answer is to put a =3D
subset of the farm in production with real production users. Only =3D
through this method can you KNOW what is going to happen.

Finally, with respect to how you know when a server is at capacity, let =3D
me issue one other cautionary note. You (IMHO) cannot tell when a server =
=3D
is at capacity by looking at any utilization metrics (like CPU %). The =3D
reason for this is that (again IMHO) you cannot model degradation in =3D
responsiveness to users from utilization metrics. You can have a fully =3D
responsive server with a CPU utilization of 100%, and one that is =3D
totally unusable with a CPU utilization of 20%.

Cheers,

Bernd Harzog
CEO
RTO Software, Inc.
bernd.harzog@xxxxxxxxxxx
678-455-5506 x701
www.rtosoft.com

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Jim Kenzig http://thethin.net [mailto:jimkenz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent:   Monday, February 23, 2004 7:55 AM
To:     thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:        [THIN] Re: How many users will go on my server

The citrix server test kit from http://www.citrix.com/cdn and the =3D
Terminal
server capacity tools at:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/techinfo/reskit/tools/hotfixes/tscpt=
=3D
-o.
asp
Claudio Rodriquez wrote a little utility for a Pocket/Palm PC at
http://www.cewindows.net/applications/tssizer.htm

Here is an article for 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=3D3Da2ae95da-be5=
6-=3D
4495-
9fb5-e4b7170b33d9&DisplayLang=3D3Den

(will probably wrap, copy it all)
See the MS  FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/community/centers/terminal/ter=
=3D
min
al_faq.mspx

Article on Thinclient.net by Steve and Christa
http://www.thinclient.net/technology/Server_Sizing.htm

If it is HP servers and you are registered with Active answers HP has a =3D
tool
to size with their servers on a link on
http://activeanswers.compaq.com/ActiveAnswers/Render/1,1027,4825-6-100-22=
=3D
5-1
,00.htm

Older white paper on sizing NT 4.0 and Compaq servers with some =3D
relevence
ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/partners/microsoft/infolib/ecg0680698.pdf

Brian Madden had a paper too (and also writes about it in his book I
believe) at brianmadden.com And he wrote a performance tuning one to use
once your server is set up to increase amount of users at
http://www.rtosoft.com/pages/whitepaper_ts_fbm.asp

Regards,
Jim Kenzig
http://thin.net


-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Thomas, Jeremy
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 6:32 AM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] How many users will go on my server


Problem:
I have 2000 users. How many terminal servers do I need.

Servers are W2003, XPe, dual Xeon 2.8, 4Gb RAM
All users receive a published desktop. Standard applications are MS =3D
Offic=3D3D
e & Lotus Notes, other applications include SAP.

I need to simulate a typical user load - users using applications in a =3D
"t=3D3D
ypical" way, and automate this. Then, I need to test various =3D
applications=3D3D
 like Appsense or TScale to see what sort of improvement they make on =3D
per=3D3D
formance.

So:
What can I use to simulate userload of between 40 and 200 users making =3D
ty=3D3D
pical use of our application set?
What criteria should I use to determine that the server is running at =3D
"fu=3D3D
ll" capacity?
What other criteria might I use to fine tune these servers?
How did you do it?
What were your experiences?
What applications might I consider to get the servers running more =3D
effici=3D3D
ently?

Regards,

Jeremy Thomas

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