Thanks Jeremy, Itâs an interesting project due to this particular requirement. I've done the sums and it does look like it will work fine over a WAN, given their WAN is light on utilization 2M each site and 100M in the Datacenter. QoS is also setup which we can manipulate a little if need be as well. I would have to say though, doing this on MF XP 1.0 would have been next to impossible, but 3 and 4 make it possible. Tony Lyne Consultant Senior Systems Engineer +64 6 353 7300 +64 6 356 6800 +64 27 472 0696 tony.lyne@xxxxxxxxxxx www.gen-i.co.nz 172-174 Broadway Avenue, PO Box 1470, Palmerston North, New Zealand "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jeremy Saunders Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 1:31 p.m. To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN I missed this post because I was away for the 2nd half of last week, but I do agree with Mark and Steve. I realise that my initial reply came across as rude, and I didn't mean that. I guess I was shocked to see a design like this. And for those of us that build/architect solutions like this, it's difficult to understand the business drivers behind this, without being told the exact reasons. Sorry Tony. Cheers. Kind regards, Jeremy Saunders Senior Technical Specialist Infrastructure Technology Services (ITS) & Cerulean Global Technology Services (GTS) IBM Australia Level 2, 1060 Hay Street West Perth WA 6005 Visit us at http://www.ibm.com/services/au/its P: +61 8 9261 8412 F: +61 8 9261 8486 M: TBA E-mail: jeremy.saunders@xxxxxxxxxxx "Steve Greenberg" <steveg@thinclien t.net> To Sent by: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> thin-bounce@freel cc ists.org Subject [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN 24/05/2006 11:05 PM Please respond to thin Well stated- I agree. I am genuinely curious about what business conditions drive this type of design. I have seen all kinds of weird situations where the proper design is the âwrongâ design based on the unique requirements of the environment. Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 www.thinclient.net steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Landin, Mark Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:19 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN OK guys we are starting to sound a little condescending, perhaps. Let's presume for a moment that the business decided their business needs, and Tony's solution is the best solution. Tony, we ask for more details about your needs not to try to tear down or critique your architecture (although if somebody does have a constructive suggestion, I would expect them to communicate it), but, in my case at least, I've not been in a situation where your particular architecture is demanded, so I'm interested in learning what the driving factors are behind it. It's going to be more of an education for me, than me trying to educate you! From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew Wood Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:07 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN Are they, for instance, mad? From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Greenberg Sent: 24 May 2006 12:56 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN Tony, I fully understand the validity of providing a non-standard solution based on client needs. Could you explain what type of factors drive this type of design requirement? Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 www.thinclient.net steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony Lyne Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:30 AM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN Well in this case it is and really the only solution given their business drivers behind things. T. From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Joe Shonk Sent: Wed 24/05/2006 3:23 p.m. To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN Or prehaps Citrix isn't the best solution in this senario.... As much as we all love and know citrix, it's not always the ideal solution. Joe On 5/23/06, Tony Lyne <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Thanks guys, So really the outcome from this thread is what I expectedâ Unfortunately in the ideal world I would have a centralized datacenter, but in this case it's physically impossible due to a number of constraints, business and technology wise. One thing I've been possibly considering is the use of a traffic shaping appliance like an Exinda optimizer to quantify IMA traffic and then shaping it to reduce impact on the WAN, and also from there look at compressing it further. Tony Lyne Consultant Senior Systems Engineer +64 6 353 7300 +64 6 356 6800 +64 27 472 0696 tony.lyne@xxxxxxxxxxx www.gen-i.co.nz 172-174 Broadway Avenue, PO Box 1470, Palmerston North, New Zealand "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew Wood Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2006 8:07 p.m. To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN At pubforum the citix guys mentioned an NHS site that had a large number of zones (over 10 iirc). The citrix guys thought it would fall over, but they set it up in the labs and it didn't. That wasn't a wan per se tho' .... just popped it in for the large number of zones. I would have thought besides the high levels IMA traffic going backwards and forwards, the many policies you'd probably have to put in place and then manage, the distributed/replicated(?) nature of the licensing services and access to the datastore, the difficulty in ensuring standardised deployment patching and application updates across wan links, possibility of difficulty in managing the user loads in the event of a disaster, and depending on the nature of the apps scary problems with home drives, printing and profiles, and increased costs of adding in bandwidth optimisation technologies it should be absolutely fine. From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Greenberg Sent: 23 May 2006 06:21 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN I have to agree this is odd. It is more common to build two highly fault tolerant data centers and then have the 27 sites access the data centers. In fact, this would be a significantly better approach for many reasons! Sorry, I realize you weren't asking for an alternate design J Steve Greenberg Thin Client Computing 34522 N. Scottsdale Rd D8453 Scottsdale, AZ 85262 (602) 432-8649 www.thinclient.net steveg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joe Shonk Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:26 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN Odd ball indeed... Most corporations have their WAN links go to their primary Data Center and to their DR site... So only two sets of servers are required. The key will be to keep the number of zones to a minimum. Joe On 5/22/06, Tony Lyne <Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Hey Mark, Yes it's a bit of an odd ball design request. The driver behind this particular design is they need a 24x7 uptime and have each site totally autonomous in the case of a WAN failure. But don't want the hassle of having 27 separate farms to manage (understandable). Tony Lyne Consultant Senior Systems Engineer +64 6 353 7300 +64 6 356 6800 +64 27 472 0696 tony.lyne@xxxxxxxxxxx www.gen-i.co.nz 172-174 Broadway Avenue, PO Box 1470 , Palmerston North, New Zealand "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Landin, Mark Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2006 9:26 a.m. To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: Citrix farms over a WAN That seems like one ... unorthodox? ... architecture to me. Care to clarify the details that are leading to this design? (Not saying it's wrong, just saying I can't think of the real-world problem this solution is looking for...) From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony Lyne Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 4:02 PM To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Citrix farms over a WAN Guys/Gals, I've been given a project to scope out a citrix farm design which consists of 27 sites with 2 load balanced Citrix servers on each site. The client needs it in this configuration for specific redundancy reasons (ie WAN redundancy etcâ) Does any one know what the limitations on having a single farm span across 27 sites (limited bandwidth available as well). I was planning on specifying a zone for each site, and disabling load balancing across zones in MPS 4. Any other pointers would be much appreciated. Thanks, Tony Lyne Consultant Senior Systems Engineer +64 6 353 7300 +64 6 356 6800 +64 27 472 0696 tony.lyne@xxxxxxxxxxx www.gen-i.co.nz 172-174 Broadway Avenue, PO Box 1470 , Palmerston North, New Zealand "This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002." ÈI+R{nÇ&8zËVjØjzzZ)zXÊ ŠÀÈb½ëI+hR{.nÇ+‰·’¹»®&Þ»´8 zËhVœjØžjz붛zZ0–)ä†Ûiÿü0ÁúÞzX¬¶Ê+ƒùb²ßí†)