[THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
- From: "Ron Oglesby" <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:52:38 -0500
Big IP can do what you are saying:
" makes a bunch of servers look like one server from the Internet.
Web, FTP, mail, whatever. You hit the address of the Big IP and it
directs
your request to a server that it knows is available and in good shape."
But that's not really its pure/intended function right. I mean like you
said there are a bunch of products out there.=20
BIG IP, Alteon, etc. BIG IP can do status/service checks against the
servers it is load balancing. SO Lets say I have 5 or even 10 different
websites. Each with 3 or 4 Ips (3 or 4 servers) it can create a virtual
IP (like an MS lb) for the site, then based on load balancing info send
the request to one of those servers after verifying it is "up". There
are also agents that can be loaded on the server to view real
performance on the server and do load balancing against those metrics.
BUT when you hit citrix you hit it on the head. The only thing you could
load balance effectively with Big IP on a Citrix server would be a
desktop.(Since BIG IP knows nothing of published applications) Generally
if you are spending the money on BIG IP (30 grand for a big controller)
you have a large env and published desktops are not all you are running.
And if you are going to use Big IP to load balance a desktop why use
Citrix then setup the terminal services and off you go?
Best bet BIG IP is an enterprise type hardware load balancing solution.
And since load balancing comes with Citrix why buy it to LB the Citrix
apps? Its primary use is for the front end services that you need fault
tolerance.
For the lines. Sure where we use BIG IP and 3-DNS is in co-located
datacenters with redundant links. And to go cross subnet like that you
need a "smart" dns that will check the site then based on that return
the IP to the client. If not you are stuck in DNS round robin hell and
ever other hit fails.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: Aderhold, Fred [mailto:Fred_Aderhold@xxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 5:52 PM
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
I don't use the Big IP but I did some research and here's how I
understand
it (correct me if I'm wrong, Ron <g>) :
The Big IP makes a bunch of servers look like one server from the
Internet.
Web, FTP, mail, whatever. You hit the address of the Big IP and it
directs
your request to a server that it knows is available and in good shape.
Similar to Citrix loadbalancing, but definately not the same. With a
Citrix
farm, you request an application from the master browser and it sends
you to
the ip address of the least-busy server. With a Big IP, you'd configure
the
Ica client to connect to one server directly, and the Big IP would send
you
to an available server. So basically it does on-the-fly NAT for your
servers, which is very different from Citrix load balancing.
Cisco makes something similar called the Local Director and they have a
nice
presentation on thier website to show how it works.
So, what do you do if your Internet line goes down? If you have two
Internet
lines, one at your primary site and one at a reduntant backup site, how
would you re-direct a request to www.webserver.com to the backup site?
Enter
the 3DNS. This can be a stand-alone device or part of a Big IP. You have
one
be your primary dns, and one your secondary (that means two 3dns's or
two
Big IPs). These two are in constant contact with each other. If the
primary
dns server detects your web server is down it will change the dns record
to
point to your backup site. If your secondary dns server detects that
your
primary is down it will modify it's records to point to the back up site
(They say this works by setting very small ttl's on the host record,
like 2
seconds, but that's not very Internet friendly. If everyone did that it
would generate a lot more dns traffic out there).
This is all VERY BASIC info, obviously there's a lot more to it, but I
think
that's the gist as I understand it. Also - these boxes ain't cheap. I
was
quoted 2 Big IPs with 3DNS for over $100,000. Give them a call
(http://www.f5.com) and they'll be glad to give you details. Personally,
I'm
looking at the 3DNS, but I'm still undecided.
HTH
Fredster...=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt McKeehan [mailto:matt.mckeehan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 3:10 PM
> To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
>=20
>=20
> More info on BIG-IP=20
> Load Balancing and High Availability for Citrix WinFrame and MetaFrame
> Products Using the BIG-IP(r) Controller
>=20
> Overview
>=20
> Citrix Systems, Inc. is a leader in application server software and
> services. Citrix application software enables organizations to run
> applications on servers that can be accessed from a variety of client
> devices. The BIG-IP Controller can provide high availability and load
> balancing for Citrix WinFrame and MetaFrame products.
>=20
> Benefits of Using BIG-IP
>=20
> F5's BIG-IP Controller provides high availability and load=20
> balancing for
> Citrix servers. It continually monitors each for availability, then
> automatically routes incoming queries to the most available=20
> server. BIG-IP
> verifies that applications are available before sending user=20
> requests to it.
> Servers internal to BIG-IP can securely connect outbound,=20
> with their actual
> IP addresses hidden
>=20
> This is very confusing...
>=20
> Matt Mckeehan
> DJS Citrix LAN Supervisor
> Admin Office of The PA Courts
> PA Supreme Court
> (717)795-2063
> (717)554-4020 mobile
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 2:40 PM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
>=20
>=20
> F-5 Makes a lot of hard ware load balancing solutions. Great for web
> servers, CSG's internet proxies, all types of stuff.
>=20
> BIG IP is the line then there are server "versions" like the=20
> 320, or the
> 520 3-DNS etc.
>=20
> Ron
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jan Broucinek [mailto:TinyBeetle@xxxxxxxxx]=3D20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:36 PM
> To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
>=20
> I hate to admit my ignorance, but what is "BIG-IP"?
>=20
> Jan Broucinek, System Manager
> Arthur Rutenberg Homes, Inc.
> (727) 536-5900 voice
> (727) 536-7168 x245 direct
> (727) 538-9089 fax
> www.arhomes.com
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Oglesby" <roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 2:31 PM
> Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
>=20
>=20
> >
> >
> > It does nothing. You should not use Big to Load balance Citrix
> servers.
> > It gets away from the whole published application/load balancing
> > mechanism inherent to Citrix.
> >
> > BIG IP is used a lot in Large Citrix environments outside of the
> Citrix
> > servers.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt McKeehan [mailto:matt.mckeehan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:25 PM
> > To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
> >
> > Thanks. I just do not understand what this does for a 100+ server
> > environment up and over a DC and/or a dedicated Data collector
> >
> > Matt Mckeehan
> > DJS Citrix LAN Supervisor
> > Admin Office of The PA Courts
> > PA Supreme Court
> > (717)795-2063
> > (717)554-4020 mobile
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ron Oglesby [mailto:roglesby@xxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 2:12 PM
> > To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
> >
> >
> > I use Big IP for external and internal IIS load balancing. Also use
> the
> > 3-DNS for external website (nfuse) load balancing across=20
> data centers.
> >
> > But on the Citrix side... How would BIG IP know which server runs
> which
> > apps... It wouldn't. Use the BIG IP for things other than the CTX
> > servers them selves.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt McKeehan =
[mailto:matt.mckeehan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D20
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 10:45 AM
> > To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
> >
> > I know in an RFP the consulting firm said that citrix=20
> recommended the
> > big_ip
> > to handle load balancing for the large server farm. I'm confused as
> > well...
> >
> > Matt Mckeehan
> > DJS Citrix LAN Supervisor
> > Admin Office of The PA Courts
> > PA Supreme Court
> > (717)795-2063
> > (717)554-4020 mobile
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Shonk [mailto:JShonk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D3D20
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:43 AM
> > To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [THIN] Re: BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
> >
> > Question: Why? Citrix handles load-balancing itself.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt McKeehan [mailto:matt.mckeehan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:40 AM
> > To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: [THIN] BIG_IP and Metaframe XP
> >
> >
> > Does anyone use a BIG_IP to redirect traffic to the citrix servers?
> How
> > does this piece interact with the Data collector? Does any have any
> > information or can they point me to information relating to=20
> BIG-IP and
> > XP.
> > Thanks
> >
> > Matt Mckeehan
> > DJS Citrix LAN Supervisor
> > Admin Office of The PA Courts
> > PA Supreme Court
> > (717)795-2063
> > (717)554-4020 mobile
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> =
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3D3D3
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3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> =
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D=
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> > =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D
> >=20
> =
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3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> =
=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D=3D=
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> > =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D
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> =
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3D3D3
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> > =
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> > =3D3D3D3D=3D3D3D
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3D3D3D=3D3D3D3D
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> =
=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D=
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> =3D3D3D=3D3D
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> =3D3D3D=3D3D
> > =
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> =
=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D3D3D=3D=
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> =3D3D3D=3D3D
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> =3D3D3D=3D3D
> > =
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> D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
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> =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
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>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
> D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
> This weeks Sponsor:
> triCerat, Inc
> ScrewDrivers fxp: Self Configuring Printer Driver with=20
> Bandwidth Control
> Learn more at:
> http://www.tricerat.com/?page=3D3Dproducts&product=3D3Dsdfxp
>=20
> =
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
> D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D
> =3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
> For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=3D20
> set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link.
>=20
> http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> This weeks Sponsor:
> triCerat, Inc
> ScrewDrivers fxp: Self Configuring Printer Driver with=20
> Bandwidth Control
> Learn more at:
> http://www.tricerat.com/?page=3Dproducts&product=3Dsdfxp
>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
> set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link.
>=20
> http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> This weeks Sponsor:
> triCerat, Inc
> ScrewDrivers fxp: Self Configuring Printer Driver with=20
> Bandwidth Control
> Learn more at:
> http://www.tricerat.com/?page=3Dproducts&product=3Dsdfxp
>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
> set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link.
>=20
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>=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
This weeks Sponsor:
triCerat, Inc
ScrewDrivers fxp: Self Configuring Printer Driver with Bandwidth Control
Learn more at:
http://www.tricerat.com/?page=3Dproducts&product=3Dsdfxp
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or=20
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link.
http://thethin.net/citrixlist.cfm
===================================
This weeks Sponsor:
triCerat, Inc
ScrewDrivers fxp: Self Configuring Printer Driver with Bandwidth Control
Learn more at:
http://www.tricerat.com/?page=products&product=sdfxp
===================================
For Archives, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or
set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link.
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