Thanks for that Andrew - one of my motives for looking at 64 bit (apart from the technical challenge) is that once we get an environment up and running smoothly here we tend not to change it for a couple of years or so (except for the usual patches and supplier software upgrades). By that time I'll be having problems with not having gone 64 bit and virtually no experience of it. I am resigned to running mainly 32 bits apps at the moment and have read of the performance hit of running wow64 so I certainly won't be selling it as a way of reducing the overall estate. I've had a quick look at the pubforum web site and can only find "Citrix Metaframe ala 64 bit - what does it give us" http://www.pubforum.net/vip/PubForum_x64_Citrix.ppt#259,1,64 bit Presentation Server by Simon Frost from Citrix. Like you said I'm not sure I believe the scalability figures given here either. At the moment I'm leaning heavily towards a simultaneous 32 and 64 bit build and see what breaks first - as I said above I'd like to get my hands dirty with this whilst I've got the opportunity. Thanks for your input - really useful. Regards, Alan. _____ From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew Wood Sent: 08 June 2006 15:09 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: 64 bit experience - repost Alan, Bernhard Tritsch did great presentation on 64 bit for TS at the last pubforum. iirc the findings were essentially that the 64 bit environment didn't really offer any additional benefit at present - in fact there could be more effort involved in being an early adopter almost without gain. Issues identified included getting device drivers for printers, and other hardware, anti-virus support wasn't available from all vendors. He highlighted the fact that a lot of existing apps are going to have to run in the windows on windows emulation to allow the fact that they're 32 bit apps. You obviously can't have anything older - 16bit apps won't run. This wow functionality for many apps increased resource consumption. There were issues with the fact that they've messed around with the system32/program files directories that can lead to some applications not working correctly and being cumbersome to install or not working at all. More importantly, he load tested the same desktop app suite in a 32 and 64 bit environment. While the 64 bit environment could allow more sessions to be created the apps in those (extra) sessions did not work well and were very unreliable. Getting a user count that was reliable meant that you were hitting about the same user count as with win32. He showed that the testing M$ did to get the large amount of sessions working was performed over a large amount of time - when you tried to get many users on in a short time the environment did not hold up as well. I wish I had a copy of the powerpoint :( it was a very compelling argument to sitting tight until more apps were available natively on the x64 platform. hth _____ From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Pardee Sent: 08 June 2006 14:37 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] Re: 64 bit experience - repost very close here. As we build our new PS4 Farm I challenged the team to do as much with the 64 bit version as possible. I think we are just rolling. I'll report back anything we find. On 6/8/06, Hutchinson, Alan <Alan.Hutchinson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: No takers? I was hoping to provoke some discussion - either I'm way behind the times and evrybody is using this or (and I can't believe this) I'm slightly ahead of the game, or everybody has got one in their labs and is keeping quiet .......... Regards, Alan. -----Original Message----- From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ] On Behalf Of Hutchinson, Alan Sent: 07 June 2006 16:17 To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [THIN] 64 bit experience Well, as far as I can see this hasn't been aired for a couple of months so I'm wondering what the experience is out there. I have the opportunity for a completely new build on a new infrastructure and am toying with a simultaneous 32 and 64 PS server build to see how it goes. I've seen the following : CTX105744 - but this is dated October last year and can't immediately see any updates to this and the only thing that puts me off under functionality not supported is 'Oracle' without any further explanation. KB282423 - again a few months old. The bits that concern me with this one relate to MDAC (but on re-reading may not be an issue), and '64 bit I.E. cannot load 32-bit ActiveX controls' - which may be the killer. I was encouraged by Brian Maddens article http://www.brianmadden.com/content/content.asp?id=518 about 'dropping' a 64 bit PS server into an existing 32 farm. Although long term I don't particularly fancy running a mixed farm. Thoughts, discussions, opinions, real experience please. Regards, Alan. ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ ************************************************ For Archives, RSS, to Unsubscribe, Subscribe or set Digest or Vacation mode use the below link: //www.freelists.org/list/thin ************************************************ -- Michael Pardee www.blindsquirrel.org