[THIN] Re: 2003

Gret thread. I mean we've hit a lot of remote access points here. 

As for a security team wanting to ensure firewall, and virus patches and
what not on a remote CSG client just means they don?t understand the CSG
technology. I have had a few clients that switched OFF of VPNs to Citrix and
CSG and their networks were hit by slammer, sasser, etc from VPN clients. 

Now the "problem" with CSG out of the box (and WI) is that it really doesn?t
provide that "You must connect from this type, or this corp owned computer"
functionality. For that you need client certs or soft tokens on the device
etc.   

Of course I see more of an issue of requiring that "we" "own" the rmote
device when using a VPN technology. When using a remote CSG technology the
client doesn?t become a node on the network therefore it is less of a whole.
Now I am a believe in two factor authentication, and believe a CSG setup,
using two factor, and properly secured has a lot of advantages over
traditional VPN (along with a couple of disadvantages). But I think that
dollar for dollar CSG vs VPN for getting at a Citrix server is a no brainer
when compared on the basis of cost and security. 

Now when you want to do things OUTSIDE of a citrix environment that becomes
an issue right? In those paces a nice SSL VPN becomes useful. 

But as far as a security team wanting to restrict access to, lets say corp
owned remote computers (laptops whatever) then they need to implement client
certs and manage that etc. If they only want that type of security for the
CSG implementation then I would say they are nuts. I mean a soft VPN client
that can run on ANY device as compared to a Citrix client running through
CSG on a Kiosk is way more of a whole..

Just random thoughts and rants...

Ron




-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Tony Lyne
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:35 PM
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: 2003

Quarantining is something that can be done with VPN type technology more
than an SSL based VPN technology like CSG. 

Usually virus scanning is not a problem with implementations like CSG as
your not extending the corporate network to the client. But yes, keyboard
loggers are a problem. 

One way you could get around it (if your worried about people logging
passwords) is use something like the addons for Webinterface like citrix4ge
have which restrict access to webinterface to specific groups externally.
Then use 2 factor authentication with a software token on the laptop. This
way only users with that laptop and are a member of the group will be able
to get into the web interface. Since the tokens change every few seconds its
pretty difficult for a hacker to get into the system with just a keyboard
logger as they will also need your token.

Just a thought.

Tony Lyne
Senior Systems Engineer 
Computerland Central 
P O Box 1470 
PALMERSTON NORTH
Telephone (+64) 06 3537300
Facsimile (+64) 06 3566800
Mobile (+64) 0274 720696
E-mail Tony.Lyne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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-----Original Message-----
From: BRUTON, Malcolm, FM [mailto:Malcolm.BRUTON@xxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Thursday, 14 October 2004 9:01 p.m.
To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [THIN] Re: 2003

This is an interesting thread.  Something that we are looking at but our
security guys are not so keen on CSG.  We need something like a local cert
so that only a trusted machine can use CSG.  We also need to know that the
machine has say a virus product and possibly a firewall running before they
can use CSG.  Security guys reasons are that there could be a screen scraper
or keyboard logger pulling vital information.  I mean CSG is more secure
than most solutions but if the machine that you are connecting from is
compromised it could still spell problems.  Has anybody got any ideas how to
get round this?    i.e. only allow CSG from company supplied laptops rather
than from say an Internet café.  How we can run it with workstation certs
and server certs and know that virus protection is running.  Our security
guys lean towards SLL/VPN's because you can look for local certs virus
protection etc before establishing the connection and in theory know that
the machine is safe before allowing a connection.

Thoughts?

Malcolm

-----Original Message-----
From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Alexander Danilychev
Sent: 13 October 2004 18:41
To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [THIN] Re: 2003

One of CSG advantages is the SSL protection from "man in the middle" 
attacks. However, to realize full SSL potential both server and client 
should have private certificates - not just the server (which is the case in

99% of cases - server has private cert and client has access to server's 
public cert). Unfortunately this is hard to achieve with outside users where

connection security is the most vulnerable.

Regarding "pure" ICA versus RDP - Citrix is relying on Microsoft's 
encryption providers/technology (certainly on Windows) and thus it is hard
to expect any advantages of ICA over RDP.

ALEX

>From: "Jeff Pitsch" <jpitsch@xxxxxxx>
>Reply-To: thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: <thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [THIN] Re: 2003
>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:48:25 -0400
>
>While both have encryption you can turn on, I would say with CSG your
>stream is more secure.
>
>Jeff Pitsch
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:thin-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>Behalf Of Bill Beckett
>Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 11:35 AM
>To: 'thin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
>Subject: [THIN] 2003
>
>Back to the 2003 RDP vs Citrix ICA debate. If accessing published apps
>or
>desktops across the WAN, isn't ICA more secure or I should say can't you
>make ICA more secure with Secure Gateway? Or is that not an accurate
>assessment?
>
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