I'm going to have to agree with Mike here (as much as I hate too :-) and agree that basically John Dvorak is on to something here. Computers aren't fun anymore and while I don't necessarily agree that it's the cause of the downturn in tech stocks and computer sales, there may be some kernel of truth to it all. I also agree that the Mac did largely lead the way in making computers less fun, at least for hacker types like myself. One might think that the Amiga and Macs would be simular environments, but you'd be very wrong. The Mac was a proprietary mystery that had very little in the way of programming tools, while the Amiga on the other hand came with a circuit diagram of the mainboard in the owners manual, had full documentation on every single aspect of the OS and had quite some competition amung compiler makers. Anyone could hack the Amiga, and is probably the single biggest reason why programs are still be written for it, even to this day. I doubt the Mac would have had such longevity if it had suffered the same fate as the Amiga. The Amiga was a very fun computer, and the Mac was decidedly not. One thing I do dissagree with JD about is that GUI's inherently lead to less fun computers. I don't find them all that useful mind you, but they don't in of themselves make computers less fun, not as long as a xterm or its equivalent is available. He's also right on the money as far as games go. I really haven't seen an orginal game idea since, well, wolfen3d probably. The games look better, but I'm not convinced they are better. Replay value of some of these games is about zero anymore, if I can even be bothered to get all the way through them. You know the more I think about it, the more I think he may actually be right about the less fun we have with computers leading to reduced computer buying. It seems that in recent years, what I do with a computer has shrunk, not grown. If I wasn't a sys-admin, and being online all the time wasn't practically a part of my job, probably the only thing I'd do with my computer is read e-mail perhaps once a day, and browse the few specialty sites I do every day to keep up on things. Certainly doesn't seem worth having a GHz processor and tons of memory and such for just that. Unless something happens to my computer, I don't imagine I'll need or even want to upgrade anything about it for at least another year or two. That's not always been the case I assure you. - Steve