[TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?

  • From: "Jim Myers" <jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 13:20:31 -0500


But if we could get away with it? WOW! No one would be able to get a tv
fixed.
Jim Myers
Telrad Electronic Services Co.
Fort Wayne, IN 46815
jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx
260-432-4486 Fax and Voice
Fax is always on
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tel-Tek Electronics" <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?



Funny how we can translate the copyright law to suit our own needs. We all
know what it is, we have all abused it at one time or other, best thing is
leave it alone, and again..........use common sense.
You won't see a copyright logo on the American Dollar, but we all know it
shouldn't be reproduced..;-)

-Ed-
Tel-Tek Electronics
Midland, Ont. Canada.
teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx

"Quality will be remembered, long after Price is forgotten"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaetan" <techno1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:22 PM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?


> Here in Montreal , when I want a schematic , I used to go to Solacmar
> (distributor) and they were photocopying the original they had , and
selling
> me 1$ per printed page ......
> They are close now , but the other distributor (Hecotron) is still doing
the
> same .
>
> Donno where the copyrights are in that , but it seems to be current way
here
> to have schematics . So ..... probably not copyrighted documents .
>
> My way of thinking is , there are copyrights on the design , not on the
> schematic by itself , meaning you cannot design your own circuit using the
> design of another company , that's all .
>
> Gaetan Bourgouin
> Techno Logik
> Terrebonne  Que. Can.
> techno1@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ***Did you know .....
> ... State with highest % of people who walk to work : Alaska. ...
>
>
> At 10:01 16-05-02 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I agree. I too help out wih prints if I can. What I was meaning to
> say in my message was- I was trying to poke a bit at the folks who take
> the copyrights too seriously, like I was trying to lay it on extra thick
> that they shouldn't even be lending the print out because the publisher
> wouldn't get any money for your friend using the print, whether or not
> that would actually be part of the law or not. I really can't feel sorry
> for a company such as Th*mson, ripping people off big time for service
> info when they themselves have produced a below par product to begin
> with. They should just be happy someone is willing to repair these
> things and keep the customers satisfied that their set lasts about 10
> years.
>
>
>
> Gary McCartney
>
> McCartney Electronics
> 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> Fax: (519)821-1530
> email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> mark brock wrote:
> >
> >    I think they mean you can't sell there copy of the print,    I.e.
"not
> >for profit "  so lend it or copy it but dont' sell it.   ok,  maybe I'm
> >reading more into it than there really is but they made the print to make
> >the machine,   it doesn't cost much but paper and ink to copy it,  we're
> >helping the mfg. out by being able to repair the junk they make.   I can
> >tell you that many people will not purchase an item if it can't be
> repaired,
> >so prints are for the good of the mfg.    as for me  If  I have a print
and
> >can help someone out,  they're welcome to it,  it certainly doesn't
bother
> >me in the least.   I also take tips
> >brock
> >Brock Electronics
> >R.R.4 box 237
> >Independence Ks. 67301
> >620-331-0235
> >fax  331-7191
> >
> >brock@xxxxxxx
> >mailto:brock@xxxxxxx[1]
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Date: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:50 PM
> >Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >
> >>
> >>I don't believe that personal use stuff. (I don't really follow
> >>copyright laws, but thats another story). On most copyrights I've read
> >>they say something to the affect that you can not copy, whole or in
> >>part, for any reason. I bet Bill Gates wouldn't allow you to copy
> >>Windows for a buddy even though it's not for money. When you copy a
> >>schematic, the publisher is losing money, whether it's to fix your own
> >>TV or a customers TV. I'll even go one step further. If you loan a
> >>schematic to someone, even if it is to be returned to you, the publisher
> >>is losing money on a sale because your friend doesn't have to go buy it
> >>himself.
> >>
> >>I also think the publishers do a decent job of ripping us off. I paid
> >>$100.00 CDN for an RCA projection service manual, so I say they stole
> >>from me. Ya, I know. I'm helping to pay for all the manuals that are
> >>copied.
> >>
> >>
> >>Gary McCartney
> >>
> >>McCartney Electronics
> >>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >>Fax: (519)821-1530
> >>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Wayne Vanaman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I just looked at a Panasonic, copywrite; TCE, copywrite; JVC,
copywrite;
> >>>Mitsubishi-No copywrite.
> >>>
> >>>As far as including service data with each set, when there are high
> >failure
> >>>rates that might be reasonable.  If failure rates are low it is a
waste.
> >It
> >>>appears to me, the best I can tell, that RCA has about a 2.5-3% in
> >warranty
> >>>failure rate.
> >>>
> >>>As far as libraries with copy machines, back to what Paul said:
personal
> >>>use, not for profit.  I bet if you were "caught" making copies and then
> >>>charging for repairs you made using that information you could be
> >>>prosocuted.  The question is, would it be worth it to the
> >>>Manufacturer/Publisher to chase you down.
> >>>
> >>>There are many illegal activities that go un-persecuted.
> >>>
> >>>Wayne Vanaman
> >>>Omega Electronics
> >>>6904 W Fairfield Dr
> >>>Pensacola, Fl.  32506-3310
> >>>
> >>>850-456-5995 voice
> >>>850-458-6369 fax
> >>>
> >>>Mailto:Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[2]
> >>>WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com[3]
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Gary McCartney" <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:16 PM
> >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>If they go back to including a manual with each set sold, nobody would
> >>>>have to make a copy, so there wouldn't have to be a copyright law.
> >>>>
> >>>>Now all this talk about libraries having the Sams manuals, how do they
> >>>>justify allowing everyone to make copies??  Why does every library
even
> >>>>have a photocopier? It seems to me almost anything found in a library
> >>>>would be protected under copyright law, so it seems strange that
> >>>>libraries are helping everyone break the law. Oh well, better for us
> >>>>anyways.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Gary McCartney
> >>>>
> >>>>McCartney Electronics
> >>>>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >>>>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >>>>Fax: (519)821-1530
> >>>>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Doug Keller wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There should be no "copyright" laws on service literature, unless
> >they
> >>>want to
> >>>>>go back to including a service manual with each set sold.
> >>>>>Doug
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Paul Gendreau wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Walter:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>When then material is shared the profit comes from use of the
> >>>material.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>No, you don't make a profit when you share a manual.  But the
> >person
> >>>who
> >>>>>>uses it does when he collects money from a customer, and that was
> >>>money lost
> >>>>>>to the person who was owed for the copyright.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--== Paul ==--
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>Paul R. Gendreau, Jr.
> >>>>>>Tel: 207-490-1835
> >>>>>>Fax: 207-490-1893
> >>>>>>Email: Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>http://www.servicesoftware.com[4]
> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>[mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[5]]On Behalf Of walter wood
> >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:08 PM
> >>>>>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I'm also a musician, and you can bet that the
> >>>>>>copyright laws are well known to us.
> >>>>>>The bottom line on copying, be it tape or
> >>>>>>photocopy, to determine legality, hinges on profit.
> >>>>>>If the copies are for personal use, and/or there is
> >>>>>>NO profit made on the deal, then no law is broken.
> >>>>>>As I interpet that, we can share our resources and
> >>>>>>knowledge as much as we want, but the minute
> >>>>>>someone charges as much as a penny, that is
> >>>>>>copyright infringement.
> >>>>>>And, of course, the manufacturers don't want
> >>>>>>equipment repaired anyway.
> >>>>>>For that matter neither do the retailers, and
> >>>>>>discount stores.
> >>>>>>Everyone simply wants to profit selling new junk.
> >>>>>>Walter--- Jim Myers <jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Probably not exactly legal but I agree with Ed, I
> >>>>>>>don't think any of the
> >>>>>>>manufacturers really care if we do this anyway.
> >>>>>>>At least their products are
> >>>>>>>getting repaired in the field.
> >>>>>>>Jim Myers
> >>>>>>>Telrad Electronic Services Co.
> >>>>>>>Fort Wayne, IN 46815
> >>>>>>>jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>260-432-4486 Fax and Voice
> >>>>>>>Fax is always on
> >>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>From: "Ed Gaidies" <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:16 AM
> >>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams
> >>>>>>>photofact cost?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>My thinking on this is, since TechAssist is being
> >>>>>>>run on a voluntary basis,
> >>>>>>>implementing a service such as this would be more
> >>>>>>>time consuming for the
> >>>>>>>guys that only have so many hours in a day, 32
> >>>>>>>the last time I checked.
> >>>>>>>Plus charging a fee for Service Literature would
> >>>>>>>infringe on copyright of
> >>>>>>>the companies involved. Paying these companies
> >>>>>>>for use of their material
> >>>>>>>would again show their greed.
> >>>>>>>Keep the sharing of Service info on a
> >>>>>>>peer-to-peer basis, If I have it, your
> >>>>>>>welcome...If you have it..I'm welcome.
> >>>>>>>     This is one of the reasons Tech's go to a
> >>>>>>>Peer Group like TechAssist,
> >>>>>>>help is being supplied on a personal basis.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>-Ed-
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>From: walter wood <wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>Reply-To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 22:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>>>>>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought?
> >>>>>>>RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Gary; Think again. I DO buy SAMS, I just don't
> >>>>>>>>subscribe. I suspect that most other non
> >>>>>>>>subscribers buy on an as needed basis as I do.
> >>>>>>>>Also consider the help that some of us render
> >>>>>>>from
> >>>>>>>>PartsFinder, Z-tips, WinsTips, Jeff's tip CD,
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>>the thousands of dollars of factory schematics
> >>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>>we are forced to buy to remain ASC's.
> >>>>>>>>Also, it's pretty easy to tell who is a pro,
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>>who isn't.
> >>>>>>>>Also, I received tons of help from the
> >>>>>>>established
> >>>>>>>>techs when I started out 33 years ago.
> >>>>>>>>Helping out the newcomers is a way to pay back.
> >>>>>>>>Saw a great movie the other day called "Pay it
> >>>>>>>>Forward."
> >>>>>>>>Might have a message here.
> >>>>>>>>Respectfully
> >>>>>>>>Walter
> >>>>>>>>--- Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>What about the 400 list members who wouldn't
> >>>>>>>pay
> >>>>>>>>>for the subscription.
> >>>>>>>>>How would they be filtered out of the benefits
> >>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>>receiving help from
> >>>>>>>>>other members who do pay for the schematics?
> >>>>>>>It
> >>>>>>>>>would be too hard for
> >>>>>>>>>each of us to keep track of who is eligable to
> >>>>>>>>>receive schematic
> >>>>>>>>>assistance and who wouldn't be. The other
> >>>>>>>thing
> >>>>>>>>>that could be done is
> >>>>>>>>>make Tech Assist a pay service of $100.00 per
> >>>>>>>>>year and the schematic
> >>>>>>>>>service would be automatically included in
> >>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>>>price.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Gary McCartney
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>McCartney Electronics
> >>>>>>>>>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >>>>>>>>>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >>>>>>>>>Fax: (519)821-1530
> >>>>>>>>>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Bill S wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Two thoughts; ??
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>With treasure chest schematics and with tips
> >>>>>>>>>like Winstip, CD tech disc and
> >>>>>>>>>>other things being available for us, I would
> >>>>>>>>>assume that $840.00 cost per
> >>>>>>>>>>year for subscription is kinda a waste....
> >>>>>>>BUT
> >>>>>>>>>as near as I can tell, there
> >>>>>>>>>>are libraries that will listen to the public
> >>>>>>>>>about those things that the
> >>>>>>>>>>good ole public would like to have in their
> >>>>>>>>>library.  In Minnesota, if the
> >>>>>>>>>>local branch did not have the right sams,
> >>>>>>>then
> >>>>>>>>>you could order out of the
> >>>>>>>>>>main branch (Minneapolis) and it would be
> >>>>>>>sent
> >>>>>>>>>to you "photo copied" at no
> >>>>>>>>>>cost.
> >>>>>>>>>>But a new thought??????????
> >>>>>>>>>>There is in the music industry a 'flat user'
> >>>>>>>>>fee for music that is used in
> >>>>>>>>>>the church.  So if a choir or a church used a
> >>>>>>>>>'copyrighted' song, then the
> >>>>>>>>>>royalties were paid a one time fee to a
> >>>>>>>>>clearing house that specializes in
> >>>>>>>>>>just that type of thing.  There is a license
> >>>>>>>>>number that is assigned to that
> >>>>>>>>>>church organization for the use of that
> >>>>>>>>>material.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Nowww what would happen  if "we the techs"
> >>>>>>>were
> >>>>>>>>>to subscribe to Techassist
> >>>>>>>>>>schematic clearing house (kinda like what we
> >>>>>>>do
> >>>>>>>>>in support for internet fee
> >>>>>>>>>>that is paid to Techassist).  If I needed a
> >>>>>>>CTC
> >>>>>>>>>177 print and I had paid a
> >>>>>>>>>>yearly fee of $100.00 (as an example) and the
> >>>>>>>>>print was either faxed or
> >>>>>>>>>>emailed and the clearing house would pay a
> >>>>>>>>>royalty fee to RCA and so on.
> >>>>>>>>>>This would offer us an advantage at being
> >>>>>>>more
> >>>>>>>>>legitimate legally speaking,
> >>>>>>>>>>Answers the critics of copyrights, Offer us
> >>>>>>>>>better more timely resources,
> >>>>>>>>>>and helps support each other in a way that
> >>>>>>>may
> >>>>>>>>>allow for us to answer
> >>>>>>>>>>questions about problems rather than looking
> >>>>>>>up
> >>>>>>>>>prints and such.  We could
> >>>>>>>>>>even contribute to the library as it were.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Granted there would be a lot of work.  I read
> >>>>>>>>>that the list is up to 800
> >>>>>>>>>>plus members and say for example if 400
> >>>>>>>people
> >>>>>>>>>paid the $100.00 yearly fee,
> >>>>>>>>>>that would be $40,000 per year to run this
> >>>>>>>>>thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>My two bits...
> >>>>>>>>>>Bill Sorensen
> >>>>>>>>>>New Life Video &Audio
> >>>>>>>>>>billans@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>From: "Tel-Tek Electronics"
> >>>>>>>>><teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:23 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> >>>>>>>cost?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>With all you guys unsubbing, no wonder the
> >>>>>>>>>price keeps going up. But
> >>>>>>>>>>that's
> >>>>>>>>>>>pretty high for a monthly charge.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>-Ed-
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Tel-Tek Electronics
> >>>>>>>>>>>Midland, Ont. Canada.
> >>>>>>>>>>>teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>"Quality will be remembered, long after
> >>>>>>>Price
> >>>>>>>>>is forgotten"
> >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>From: "al" <al@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:29 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> >>>>>>>>>cost?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I unsubbed,it will take years for me to
> >>>>>>>>>notice.For $70. per monthg I can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>order whatever I need,price was too high.
> >>>>>>>>>Comments?  al
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>alleathe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Al Leatherman
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Mine Hill, NJ 07803
> >>>>>>>>>>>>973-361-5796
> >>>>>>>>>>>>WWW.ALS-TV.NET[6]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Dan Garris" <dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:18 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Sams photofact cost?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I am a long-time Sams Photofacts
> >>>>>>>>>subscriber and presently paying $70
> >>>>>>>>>>per
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>month for sub.  UPS is $3.84. SO my
> >>>>>>>>>Monthly total for my Sams sub is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>$73.84
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>How much are other shops here in the
> >>>>>>>>>group paying? Many local shops
> >>>>>>>>>>I've
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>spoken to have long canceled their sub.
> >>>>>>>>>Prices keep rising also on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Sams
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>sub. But I like the sub rather than the
> >>>>>>>>>online method. Any comments
> >>>>>>>>>>from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>other shops on the group here?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Dan Garris
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Garris TV
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>3104 Neuse Blvd.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>New Bern, NC.  28560-4116
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>252-638-4477 voice
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>252-635-2772 fax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx[7]
>
> --- Links ---
>    1 mailto:brock@xxxxxxx
>    2 mailto:Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>    3 http://www.pensacolatvrepair.com/
>    4 http://www.servicesoftware.com/
>    5 mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>    6 http://www.als-tv.net/
>    7 mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
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