[TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
- From: "Bruce Tiedeman" <btied@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 May 1980 13:42:28 -0400
This distributor you speak of HECOTRON, can you share their web address or
phone number. I buy from Global Semi here in Ontario. I have purchased stuff
from Ponton in Montreal. I have a lot of RCA service lit. Up to CTC 203 if
needed. Let me know. Used to buy a little from Sidnap when they where in
Montreal.
thanks
Bruce
B&T Electronics
Sarnia Ontario
Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaetan" <techno1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:22 PM
Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> Here in Montreal , when I want a schematic , I used to go to Solacmar
> (distributor) and they were photocopying the original they had , and
selling
> me 1$ per printed page ......
> They are close now , but the other distributor (Hecotron) is still doing
the
> same .
>
> Donno where the copyrights are in that , but it seems to be current way
here
> to have schematics . So ..... probably not copyrighted documents .
>
> My way of thinking is , there are copyrights on the design , not on the
> schematic by itself , meaning you cannot design your own circuit using the
> design of another company , that's all .
>
> Gaetan Bourgouin
> Techno Logik
> Terrebonne Que. Can.
> techno1@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> ***Did you know .....
> ... State with highest % of people who walk to work : Alaska. ...
>
>
> At 10:01 16-05-02 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I agree. I too help out wih prints if I can. What I was meaning to
> say in my message was- I was trying to poke a bit at the folks who take
> the copyrights too seriously, like I was trying to lay it on extra thick
> that they shouldn't even be lending the print out because the publisher
> wouldn't get any money for your friend using the print, whether or not
> that would actually be part of the law or not. I really can't feel sorry
> for a company such as Th*mson, ripping people off big time for service
> info when they themselves have produced a below par product to begin
> with. They should just be happy someone is willing to repair these
> things and keep the customers satisfied that their set lasts about 10
> years.
>
>
>
> Gary McCartney
>
> McCartney Electronics
> 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> Fax: (519)821-1530
> email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> mark brock wrote:
> >
> > I think they mean you can't sell there copy of the print, I.e.
"not
> >for profit " so lend it or copy it but dont' sell it. ok, maybe I'm
> >reading more into it than there really is but they made the print to make
> >the machine, it doesn't cost much but paper and ink to copy it, we're
> >helping the mfg. out by being able to repair the junk they make. I can
> >tell you that many people will not purchase an item if it can't be
> repaired,
> >so prints are for the good of the mfg. as for me If I have a print
and
> >can help someone out, they're welcome to it, it certainly doesn't
bother
> >me in the least. I also take tips
> >brock
> >Brock Electronics
> >R.R.4 box 237
> >Independence Ks. 67301
> >620-331-0235
> >fax 331-7191
> >
> >brock@xxxxxxx
> >mailto:brock@xxxxxxx[1]
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Date: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:50 PM
> >Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >
> >>
> >>I don't believe that personal use stuff. (I don't really follow
> >>copyright laws, but thats another story). On most copyrights I've read
> >>they say something to the affect that you can not copy, whole or in
> >>part, for any reason. I bet Bill Gates wouldn't allow you to copy
> >>Windows for a buddy even though it's not for money. When you copy a
> >>schematic, the publisher is losing money, whether it's to fix your own
> >>TV or a customers TV. I'll even go one step further. If you loan a
> >>schematic to someone, even if it is to be returned to you, the publisher
> >>is losing money on a sale because your friend doesn't have to go buy it
> >>himself.
> >>
> >>I also think the publishers do a decent job of ripping us off. I paid
> >>$100.00 CDN for an RCA projection service manual, so I say they stole
> >>from me. Ya, I know. I'm helping to pay for all the manuals that are
> >>copied.
> >>
> >>
> >>Gary McCartney
> >>
> >>McCartney Electronics
> >>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >>Fax: (519)821-1530
> >>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Wayne Vanaman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I just looked at a Panasonic, copywrite; TCE, copywrite; JVC,
copywrite;
> >>>Mitsubishi-No copywrite.
> >>>
> >>>As far as including service data with each set, when there are high
> >failure
> >>>rates that might be reasonable. If failure rates are low it is a
waste.
> >It
> >>>appears to me, the best I can tell, that RCA has about a 2.5-3% in
> >warranty
> >>>failure rate.
> >>>
> >>>As far as libraries with copy machines, back to what Paul said:
personal
> >>>use, not for profit. I bet if you were "caught" making copies and then
> >>>charging for repairs you made using that information you could be
> >>>prosocuted. The question is, would it be worth it to the
> >>>Manufacturer/Publisher to chase you down.
> >>>
> >>>There are many illegal activities that go un-persecuted.
> >>>
> >>>Wayne Vanaman
> >>>Omega Electronics
> >>>6904 W Fairfield Dr
> >>>Pensacola, Fl. 32506-3310
> >>>
> >>>850-456-5995 voice
> >>>850-458-6369 fax
> >>>
> >>>Mailto:Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[2]
> >>>WWW.PensacolaTVRepair.Com[3]
> >>>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Gary McCartney" <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:16 PM
> >>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>If they go back to including a manual with each set sold, nobody would
> >>>>have to make a copy, so there wouldn't have to be a copyright law.
> >>>>
> >>>>Now all this talk about libraries having the Sams manuals, how do they
> >>>>justify allowing everyone to make copies?? Why does every library
even
> >>>>have a photocopier? It seems to me almost anything found in a library
> >>>>would be protected under copyright law, so it seems strange that
> >>>>libraries are helping everyone break the law. Oh well, better for us
> >>>>anyways.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Gary McCartney
> >>>>
> >>>>McCartney Electronics
> >>>>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >>>>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >>>>Fax: (519)821-1530
> >>>>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Doug Keller wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There should be no "copyright" laws on service literature, unless
> >they
> >>>want to
> >>>>>go back to including a service manual with each set sold.
> >>>>>Doug
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Paul Gendreau wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Walter:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>When then material is shared the profit comes from use of the
> >>>material.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>No, you don't make a profit when you share a manual. But the
> >person
> >>>who
> >>>>>>uses it does when he collects money from a customer, and that was
> >>>money lost
> >>>>>>to the person who was owed for the copyright.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>--== Paul ==--
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>Paul R. Gendreau, Jr.
> >>>>>>Tel: 207-490-1835
> >>>>>>Fax: 207-490-1893
> >>>>>>Email: Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>http://www.servicesoftware.com[4]
> >>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>[mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx[5]]On Behalf Of walter wood
> >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:08 PM
> >>>>>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I'm also a musician, and you can bet that the
> >>>>>>copyright laws are well known to us.
> >>>>>>The bottom line on copying, be it tape or
> >>>>>>photocopy, to determine legality, hinges on profit.
> >>>>>>If the copies are for personal use, and/or there is
> >>>>>>NO profit made on the deal, then no law is broken.
> >>>>>>As I interpet that, we can share our resources and
> >>>>>>knowledge as much as we want, but the minute
> >>>>>>someone charges as much as a penny, that is
> >>>>>>copyright infringement.
> >>>>>>And, of course, the manufacturers don't want
> >>>>>>equipment repaired anyway.
> >>>>>>For that matter neither do the retailers, and
> >>>>>>discount stores.
> >>>>>>Everyone simply wants to profit selling new junk.
> >>>>>>Walter--- Jim Myers <jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Probably not exactly legal but I agree with Ed, I
> >>>>>>>don't think any of the
> >>>>>>>manufacturers really care if we do this anyway.
> >>>>>>>At least their products are
> >>>>>>>getting repaired in the field.
> >>>>>>>Jim Myers
> >>>>>>>Telrad Electronic Services Co.
> >>>>>>>Fort Wayne, IN 46815
> >>>>>>>jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>260-432-4486 Fax and Voice
> >>>>>>>Fax is always on
> >>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>From: "Ed Gaidies" <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:16 AM
> >>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams
> >>>>>>>photofact cost?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>My thinking on this is, since TechAssist is being
> >>>>>>>run on a voluntary basis,
> >>>>>>>implementing a service such as this would be more
> >>>>>>>time consuming for the
> >>>>>>>guys that only have so many hours in a day, 32
> >>>>>>>the last time I checked.
> >>>>>>>Plus charging a fee for Service Literature would
> >>>>>>>infringe on copyright of
> >>>>>>>the companies involved. Paying these companies
> >>>>>>>for use of their material
> >>>>>>>would again show their greed.
> >>>>>>>Keep the sharing of Service info on a
> >>>>>>>peer-to-peer basis, If I have it, your
> >>>>>>>welcome...If you have it..I'm welcome.
> >>>>>>> This is one of the reasons Tech's go to a
> >>>>>>>Peer Group like TechAssist,
> >>>>>>>help is being supplied on a personal basis.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>-Ed-
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>From: walter wood <wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>Reply-To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 22:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>>>>>>To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought?
> >>>>>>>RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Gary; Think again. I DO buy SAMS, I just don't
> >>>>>>>>subscribe. I suspect that most other non
> >>>>>>>>subscribers buy on an as needed basis as I do.
> >>>>>>>>Also consider the help that some of us render
> >>>>>>>from
> >>>>>>>>PartsFinder, Z-tips, WinsTips, Jeff's tip CD,
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>>the thousands of dollars of factory schematics
> >>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>>we are forced to buy to remain ASC's.
> >>>>>>>>Also, it's pretty easy to tell who is a pro,
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>>who isn't.
> >>>>>>>>Also, I received tons of help from the
> >>>>>>>established
> >>>>>>>>techs when I started out 33 years ago.
> >>>>>>>>Helping out the newcomers is a way to pay back.
> >>>>>>>>Saw a great movie the other day called "Pay it
> >>>>>>>>Forward."
> >>>>>>>>Might have a message here.
> >>>>>>>>Respectfully
> >>>>>>>>Walter
> >>>>>>>>--- Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>What about the 400 list members who wouldn't
> >>>>>>>pay
> >>>>>>>>>for the subscription.
> >>>>>>>>>How would they be filtered out of the benefits
> >>>>>>>of
> >>>>>>>>>receiving help from
> >>>>>>>>>other members who do pay for the schematics?
> >>>>>>>It
> >>>>>>>>>would be too hard for
> >>>>>>>>>each of us to keep track of who is eligable to
> >>>>>>>>>receive schematic
> >>>>>>>>>assistance and who wouldn't be. The other
> >>>>>>>thing
> >>>>>>>>>that could be done is
> >>>>>>>>>make Tech Assist a pay service of $100.00 per
> >>>>>>>>>year and the schematic
> >>>>>>>>>service would be automatically included in
> >>>>>>>that
> >>>>>>>>>price.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Gary McCartney
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>McCartney Electronics
> >>>>>>>>>7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> >>>>>>>>>Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> >>>>>>>>>Fax: (519)821-1530
> >>>>>>>>>email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Bill S wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Two thoughts; ??
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>With treasure chest schematics and with tips
> >>>>>>>>>like Winstip, CD tech disc and
> >>>>>>>>>>other things being available for us, I would
> >>>>>>>>>assume that $840.00 cost per
> >>>>>>>>>>year for subscription is kinda a waste....
> >>>>>>>BUT
> >>>>>>>>>as near as I can tell, there
> >>>>>>>>>>are libraries that will listen to the public
> >>>>>>>>>about those things that the
> >>>>>>>>>>good ole public would like to have in their
> >>>>>>>>>library. In Minnesota, if the
> >>>>>>>>>>local branch did not have the right sams,
> >>>>>>>then
> >>>>>>>>>you could order out of the
> >>>>>>>>>>main branch (Minneapolis) and it would be
> >>>>>>>sent
> >>>>>>>>>to you "photo copied" at no
> >>>>>>>>>>cost.
> >>>>>>>>>>But a new thought??????????
> >>>>>>>>>>There is in the music industry a 'flat user'
> >>>>>>>>>fee for music that is used in
> >>>>>>>>>>the church. So if a choir or a church used a
> >>>>>>>>>'copyrighted' song, then the
> >>>>>>>>>>royalties were paid a one time fee to a
> >>>>>>>>>clearing house that specializes in
> >>>>>>>>>>just that type of thing. There is a license
> >>>>>>>>>number that is assigned to that
> >>>>>>>>>>church organization for the use of that
> >>>>>>>>>material.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Nowww what would happen if "we the techs"
> >>>>>>>were
> >>>>>>>>>to subscribe to Techassist
> >>>>>>>>>>schematic clearing house (kinda like what we
> >>>>>>>do
> >>>>>>>>>in support for internet fee
> >>>>>>>>>>that is paid to Techassist). If I needed a
> >>>>>>>CTC
> >>>>>>>>>177 print and I had paid a
> >>>>>>>>>>yearly fee of $100.00 (as an example) and the
> >>>>>>>>>print was either faxed or
> >>>>>>>>>>emailed and the clearing house would pay a
> >>>>>>>>>royalty fee to RCA and so on.
> >>>>>>>>>>This would offer us an advantage at being
> >>>>>>>more
> >>>>>>>>>legitimate legally speaking,
> >>>>>>>>>>Answers the critics of copyrights, Offer us
> >>>>>>>>>better more timely resources,
> >>>>>>>>>>and helps support each other in a way that
> >>>>>>>may
> >>>>>>>>>allow for us to answer
> >>>>>>>>>>questions about problems rather than looking
> >>>>>>>up
> >>>>>>>>>prints and such. We could
> >>>>>>>>>>even contribute to the library as it were.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Granted there would be a lot of work. I read
> >>>>>>>>>that the list is up to 800
> >>>>>>>>>>plus members and say for example if 400
> >>>>>>>people
> >>>>>>>>>paid the $100.00 yearly fee,
> >>>>>>>>>>that would be $40,000 per year to run this
> >>>>>>>>>thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>My two bits...
> >>>>>>>>>>Bill Sorensen
> >>>>>>>>>>New Life Video &Audio
> >>>>>>>>>>billans@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>From: "Tel-Tek Electronics"
> >>>>>>>>><teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:23 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> >>>>>>>cost?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>With all you guys unsubbing, no wonder the
> >>>>>>>>>price keeps going up. But
> >>>>>>>>>>that's
> >>>>>>>>>>>pretty high for a monthly charge.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>-Ed-
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Tel-Tek Electronics
> >>>>>>>>>>>Midland, Ont. Canada.
> >>>>>>>>>>>teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>"Quality will be remembered, long after
> >>>>>>>Price
> >>>>>>>>>is forgotten"
> >>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>From: "al" <al@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:29 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> >>>>>>>>>cost?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>I unsubbed,it will take years for me to
> >>>>>>>>>notice.For $70. per monthg I can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>order whatever I need,price was too high.
> >>>>>>>>>Comments? al
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>alleathe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Al Leatherman
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Mine Hill, NJ 07803
> >>>>>>>>>>>>973-361-5796
> >>>>>>>>>>>>WWW.ALS-TV.NET[6]
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Dan Garris" <dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:18 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [TechAssist] Sams photofact cost?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>I am a long-time Sams Photofacts
> >>>>>>>>>subscriber and presently paying $70
> >>>>>>>>>>per
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>month for sub. UPS is $3.84. SO my
> >>>>>>>>>Monthly total for my Sams sub is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>$73.84
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>How much are other shops here in the
> >>>>>>>>>group paying? Many local shops
> >>>>>>>>>>I've
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>spoken to have long canceled their sub.
> >>>>>>>>>Prices keep rising also on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>Sams
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>sub. But I like the sub rather than the
> >>>>>>>>>online method. Any comments
> >>>>>>>>>>from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>other shops on the group here?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Dan Garris
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Garris TV
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>3104 Neuse Blvd.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>New Bern, NC. 28560-4116
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>252-638-4477 voice
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>252-635-2772 fax
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx[7]
>
> --- Links ---
> 1 mailto:brock@xxxxxxx
> 2 mailto:Wayne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 3 http://www.pensacolatvrepair.com/
> 4 http://www.servicesoftware.com/
> 5 mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 6 http://www.als-tv.net/
> 7 mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
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