[TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
- From: gulftech@xxxxxxxx
- To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:50:06 -0500
Bob,
Evaluation purposes? I wonder what that means. When applied to
software, it usually means to determine suitability of the product. Such
use is usually time limited and the user expected to pay for it to remain
a user. If evaluation is interpreted to mean "use for troubleshooting
electronic equipment," then...
Sams has certainly evolved since I began using them. It had about 10
units covered per folder. Cost? Maybe $2.50. I remember techs crying
when it was raised to $3.00.
I don't know the answer. I do know that most shops cannot expect to
troubleshoot most sets without a service manual or spend $1000 a year
(plus cabinets and storage space!) and remain profitable. I buy OEM
manuals for sets I'm likely to see again (not for "orphans") and several
local shops help pay the subscription costs to another. We then borrow
the occational manual when we need it. Would work only in an urban area
where cooperation exists between shops. We no longer have a local
distributor that carries Sams to buy when needed. Looks as if the
spiraling prices have decreased sales, causing further price increases.
Ken Smith
Gulf Technical Services
3034 Gulf Breeze Parkway
Gulf Breeze, FL 32563
850-934-8324 (Voice) 850-932-0819 (Fax)
On Wed, 15 May 2002 13:31:44 -0400 "bob" <woodman1@xxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> Hi Phil,
> I just checked Ztips and have cut and pasted it.....
> Z-Tips is a program developed to aid servicers in the identification
> and
> repair of Zenith Consumer Products. This program may be copied and
> distributed freely to others for evaluation purposes.
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Bobs tv... Worcester, ma
>
> main 508-853-1482
>
> fax 508-853-1480
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phillip R. Hull <phil245@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:18 PM
> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
>
>
> >
> > I just looked over a few different OEM manufacture service manuals
> and
> none
> > of them said this has a copyright on it. Check it out on your
> manuals
> > Phillip R Hull
> > phil245@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Keller" <dek@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:06 PM
> > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact cost?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > There should be no "copyright" laws on service literature,
> unless they
> > want to
> > > go back to including a service manual with each set sold.
> > > Doug
> > >
> > > Paul Gendreau wrote:
> > >
> > > > Walter:
> > > >
> > > > When then material is shared the profit comes from use of the
> material.
> > > >
> > > > No, you don't make a profit when you share a manual. But the
> person
> who
> > > > uses it does when he collects money from a customer, and that
> was
> money
> > lost
> > > > to the person who was owed for the copyright.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > --== Paul ==--
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Paul R. Gendreau, Jr.
> > > > Tel: 207-490-1835
> > > > Fax: 207-490-1893
> > > > Email: Paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > http://www.servicesoftware.com
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:techassist-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of walter
> wood
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:08 PM
> > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams photofact
> cost?
> > > >
> > > > I'm also a musician, and you can bet that the
> > > > copyright laws are well known to us.
> > > > The bottom line on copying, be it tape or
> > > > photocopy, to determine legality, hinges on profit.
> > > > If the copies are for personal use, and/or there is
> > > > NO profit made on the deal, then no law is broken.
> > > > As I interpet that, we can share our resources and
> > > > knowledge as much as we want, but the minute
> > > > someone charges as much as a penny, that is
> > > > copyright infringement.
> > > > And, of course, the manufacturers don't want
> > > > equipment repaired anyway.
> > > > For that matter neither do the retailers, and
> > > > discount stores.
> > > > Everyone simply wants to profit selling new junk.
> > > > Walter--- Jim Myers <jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Probably not exactly legal but I agree with Ed, I
> > > > > don't think any of the
> > > > > manufacturers really care if we do this anyway.
> > > > > At least their products are
> > > > > getting repaired in the field.
> > > > > Jim Myers
> > > > > Telrad Electronic Services Co.
> > > > > Fort Wayne, IN 46815
> > > > > jr.myers@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > 260-432-4486 Fax and Voice
> > > > > Fax is always on
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ed Gaidies" <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:16 AM
> > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought? RE:Sams
> > > > > photofact cost?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My thinking on this is, since TechAssist is being
> > > > > run on a voluntary basis,
> > > > > implementing a service such as this would be more
> > > > > time consuming for the
> > > > > guys that only have so many hours in a day, 32
> > > > > the last time I checked.
> > > > > Plus charging a fee for Service Literature would
> > > > > infringe on copyright of
> > > > > the companies involved. Paying these companies
> > > > > for use of their material
> > > > > would again show their greed.
> > > > > Keep the sharing of Service info on a
> > > > > peer-to-peer basis, If I have it, your
> > > > > welcome...If you have it..I'm welcome.
> > > > > This is one of the reasons Tech's go to a
> > > > > Peer Group like TechAssist,
> > > > > help is being supplied on a personal basis.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Ed-
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: walter wood <wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > Reply-To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 22:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > To: techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > Subject: [TechAssist] Re: a new thought?
> > > > > RE:Sams photofact cost?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gary; Think again. I DO buy SAMS, I just don't
> > > > > > subscribe. I suspect that most other non
> > > > > > subscribers buy on an as needed basis as I do.
> > > > > > Also consider the help that some of us render
> > > > > from
> > > > > > PartsFinder, Z-tips, WinsTips, Jeff's tip CD,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > the thousands of dollars of factory schematics
> > > > > that
> > > > > > we are forced to buy to remain ASC's.
> > > > > > Also, it's pretty easy to tell who is a pro,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > who isn't.
> > > > > > Also, I received tons of help from the
> > > > > established
> > > > > > techs when I started out 33 years ago.
> > > > > > Helping out the newcomers is a way to pay back.
> > > > > > Saw a great movie the other day called "Pay it
> > > > > > Forward."
> > > > > > Might have a message here.
> > > > > > Respectfully
> > > > > > Walter
> > > > > > --- Gary McCartney <number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What about the 400 list members who wouldn't
> > > > > pay
> > > > > >> for the subscription.
> > > > > >> How would they be filtered out of the benefits
> > > > > of
> > > > > >> receiving help from
> > > > > >> other members who do pay for the schematics?
> > > > > It
> > > > > >> would be too hard for
> > > > > >> each of us to keep track of who is eligable to
> > > > > >> receive schematic
> > > > > >> assistance and who wouldn't be. The other
> > > > > thing
> > > > > >> that could be done is
> > > > > >> make Tech Assist a pay service of $100.00 per
> > > > > >> year and the schematic
> > > > > >> service would be automatically included in
> > > > > that
> > > > > >> price.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Gary McCartney
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> McCartney Electronics
> > > > > >> 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> > > > > >> Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> > > > > >> Fax: (519)821-1530
> > > > > >> email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Bill S wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Two thoughts; ??
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> With treasure chest schematics and with tips
> > > > > >> like Winstip, CD tech disc and
> > > > > >>> other things being available for us, I would
> > > > > >> assume that $840.00 cost per
> > > > > >>> year for subscription is kinda a waste....
> > > > > BUT
> > > > > >> as near as I can tell, there
> > > > > >>> are libraries that will listen to the public
> > > > > >> about those things that the
> > > > > >>> good ole public would like to have in their
> > > > > >> library. In Minnesota, if the
> > > > > >>> local branch did not have the right sams,
> > > > > then
> > > > > >> you could order out of the
> > > > > >>> main branch (Minneapolis) and it would be
> > > > > sent
> > > > > >> to you "photo copied" at no
> > > > > >>> cost.
> > > > > >>> But a new thought??????????
> > > > > >>> There is in the music industry a 'flat user'
> > > > > >> fee for music that is used in
> > > > > >>> the church. So if a choir or a church used a
> > > > > >> 'copyrighted' song, then the
> > > > > >>> royalties were paid a one time fee to a
> > > > > >> clearing house that specializes in
> > > > > >>> just that type of thing. There is a license
> > > > > >> number that is assigned to that
> > > > > >>> church organization for the use of that
> > > > > >> material.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Nowww what would happen if "we the techs"
> > > > > were
> > > > > >> to subscribe to Techassist
> > > > > >>> schematic clearing house (kinda like what we
> > > > > do
> > > > > >> in support for internet fee
> > > > > >>> that is paid to Techassist). If I needed a
> > > > > CTC
> > > > > >> 177 print and I had paid a
> > > > > >>> yearly fee of $100.00 (as an example) and the
> > > > > >> print was either faxed or
> > > > > >>> emailed and the clearing house would pay a
> > > > > >> royalty fee to RCA and so on.
> > > > > >>> This would offer us an advantage at being
> > > > > more
> > > > > >> legitimate legally speaking,
> > > > > >>> Answers the critics of copyrights, Offer us
> > > > > >> better more timely resources,
> > > > > >>> and helps support each other in a way that
> > > > > may
> > > > > >> allow for us to answer
> > > > > >>> questions about problems rather than looking
> > > > > up
> > > > > >> prints and such. We could
> > > > > >>> even contribute to the library as it were.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Granted there would be a lot of work. I read
> > > > > >> that the list is up to 800
> > > > > >>> plus members and say for example if 400
> > > > > people
> > > > > >> paid the $100.00 yearly fee,
> > > > > >>> that would be $40,000 per year to run this
> > > > > >> thing.
> > > > > >>> My two bits...
> > > > > >>> Bill Sorensen
> > > > > >>> New Life Video & Audio
> > > > > >>> billans@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>> From: "Tel-Tek Electronics"
> > > > > >> <teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > >>> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:23 PM
> > > > > >>> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> > > > > cost?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> With all you guys unsubbing, no wonder the
> > > > > >> price keeps going up. But
> > > > > >>> that's
> > > > > >>>> pretty high for a monthly charge.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> -Ed-
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Tel-Tek Electronics
> > > > > >>>> Midland, Ont. Canada.
> > > > > >>>> teltek2@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> "Quality will be remembered, long after
> > > > > Price
> > > > > >> is forgotten"
> > > > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>>> From: "al" <al@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > >>>> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:29 PM
> > > > > >>>> Subject: [TechAssist] Re: Sams photofact
> > > > > >> cost?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> I unsubbed,it will take years for me to
> > > > > >> notice.For $70. per monthg I can
> > > > > >>>>> order whatever I need,price was too high.
> > > > > >> Comments? al
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> alleathe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >>>>> Al Leatherman
> > > > > >>>>> Mine Hill, NJ 07803
> > > > > >>>>> 973-361-5796
> > > > > >>>>> WWW.ALS-TV.NET
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>>>> From: "Dan Garris" <dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > >>>>> To: <techassist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 1:18 PM
> > > > > >>>>> Subject: [TechAssist] Sams photofact cost?
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I am a long-time Sams Photofacts
> > > > > >> subscriber and presently paying $70
> > > > > >>> per
> > > > > >>>>>> month for sub. UPS is $3.84. SO my
> > > > > >> Monthly total for my Sams sub is
> > > > > >>>>> $73.84
> > > > > >>>>>> How much are other shops here in the
> > > > > >> group paying? Many local shops
> > > > > >>> I've
> > > > > >>>>>> spoken to have long canceled their sub.
> > > > > >> Prices keep rising also on the
> > > > > >>>>> Sams
> > > > > >>>>>> sub. But I like the sub rather than the
> > > > > >> online method. Any comments
> > > > > >>> from
> > > > > >>>>>> other shops on the group here?
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Dan Garris
> > > > > >>>>>> Garris TV
> > > > > >>>>>> 3104 Neuse Blvd.
> > > > > >>>>>> New Bern, NC. 28560-4116
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> 252-638-4477 voice
> > > > > >>>>>> 252-635-2772 fax
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Mailto:dgarris@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > >>>>>> Chat with friends online, try MSN
> > > > > >> Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
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> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Gary McCartney
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> McCartney Electronics
> > > > > >> 7134 Fife Rd, RR 7
> > > > > >> Guelph Ontario Canada N1H 6J4
> > > > > >> Fax: (519)821-1530
> > > > > >> email: number63@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------
> > > > > >> To REMOVE your email address, click here:
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =====
> > > > > > Walter Wood
> > > > > > Future Tech Home Center
> > > > > > 2786 Hwy. 43 N.
> > > > > > Lawrenceburg Tn. 38464
> > > > > > 931-829-3337
> > > > > > Fax 931-829-4044
> > > > > > mailto:wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> > > > > > http://launch.yahoo.com
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> > > > =====
> > > > Walter Wood
> > > > Future Tech Home Center
> > > > 2786 Hwy. 43 N.
> > > > Lawrenceburg Tn. 38464
> > > > 931-829-3337
> > > > Fax 931-829-4044
> > > > mailto:wwood_38478@xxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> > > > http://launch.yahoo.com
> > > > ------------------------------------------
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Doug Keller "Don't be afraid to go after what you
> > > Wis-Kel Electronics want to do and what you want to be,
> but
> > > 101 Freeland Ave. don't be afraid to be willing to pay
> > > Terra Alta, WV the price"
> > > USA 26764
> > > 1-304-789-3165
> > > dek@xxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
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