Dave, Don't know about 'intelligent', maybe less patient! Do you mean a two-way stage followed by closing one direction to leave the opposite with a right turn arrow brought in by say a call cancel loop? Peter Peter Jones Principal Traffic Systems Engineer Phone: +44 (0) 151 934 4254 Fax: +44 (0) 151 922 4514 Sefton MBC - UTC 7th Floor Balliol House Balliol Road Bootle L20 3NJ >>> "Kinnaird, Dave" <D.Kinnaird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 18/05/2007 16:21 >>> Help, I have been asked to investigate the possible use of a 'Late Start' right turn filter stage. Down here in South Wales we have no previous experience of how drivers would react. TA 16/81 is not very positive about the use although I note that when it was written the use of a green arrow was not advocated. MCH 1969 is only slightly less negative about its use suggesting it is confined to North West and North East England where drivers must be more intelligent than there counterparts in the rest of the UK. I would welcome the opportunity for anyone to give me their experiences of using this M.O.C (either through this forum or via telephone) and is it still being implemented on new schemes. Thanks Dave David Kinnaird BEng CEng MIET Principal Engineer Traffic Network Systems / Prif Beiriannydd Systemau Rhwydwaith Trafnidiaeth Telematics Group / Grwp Telemateg Tel No / Rhif Ffon : 029 20873321 Fax No / Rhif Ffacs : 029 20873328 Email / E-bost : d.kinnaird@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx ********************************************************************** Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer does not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of the Council of the City and County of Cardiff shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. All e-mail sent to or from this address will be processed by Cardiff County Councils Corporate E-mail system and may be subject to scrutiny by someone other than the addressee. ********************************************************************** Mae'n bosibl bod gwybodaeth gyfrinachol yn y neges hon. Os na chyfeirir y neges atoch chi'n benodol (neu os nad ydych chi'n gyfrifol am drosglwyddo'r neges i'r person a enwir), yna ni chewch gopio na throsglwyddo'r neges. Mewn achos o'r fath, dylech ddinistrio'r neges a hysbysu'r anfonwr drwy e-bost ar unwaith. Rhowch wybod i'r anfonydd ar unwaith os nad ydych chi neu eich cyflogydd yn caniatau e-bost y Rhyngrwyd am negeseuon fel hon. Rhaid deall nad yw'r safbwyntiau, y casgliadau a'r wybodaeth arall yn y neges hon nad ydynt yn cyfeirio at fusnes swyddogol Cyngor Dinas a Sir Caerdydd yn cynrychioli barn y Cyngor Sir nad yn cael sel ei fendith. Caiff unrhyw negeseuon a anfonir at, neu o'r cyfeiriad e-bost hwn eu prosesu gan system E-bost Gorfforaethol Cyngor Sir Caerdydd a gallant gael eu harchwilio gan rywun heblaw'r person a enwir. ********************************************************************** ----------------------------------------------------------- A message from the TCUG mailing list. For information about the list visit //www.freelists.org/webpage/tcug <>This message is intended for named addressees only and may contain confidential, privileged or commercially sensitive information. If you are not a named addressee and this message has come to you in error you must not copy, distribute or take any action on its content. Please return the message to the sender by replying to it immediately and then delete it from your computer and destroy any copies of it. This message does not create or vary any contractual relationship between Sefton Metropolitan Borough Council and you. Internet e-mail is not a 100% secure communication medium and Sefton Metropolitan Borough Council does not accept responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. Whilst all reasonable care has been taken to ensure that this message is virus-free, it is the recipient's responsibility to carry out virus checks as appropriate and ensure that the onward transmission, opening or use of this message and any attachments will not adversely affect their systems or data. Sefton Metropolitan Borough Council does not accept any responsibility in this regard." ----------------------------------------------------------- A message from the TCUG mailing list. For information about the list visit //www.freelists.org/webpage/tcug