[tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
- From: Jack Garibaldi <jackgaribaldi@xxxxxxx>
- To: <tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 22:25:22 -0800
Not sure why you are using timers for deployment charges other than it is
cheaper but not accurate unless your sim is right on at apogee that’s why all
the electronics commercially available work with Hybrids for Apogee and Main
chute plus other features like motor burn out, programmable functions adding
time, delaying time etc and if you use a timer to air start motors with a
G-switch you will have to be sure you pull the G’s that is the down fall if you
have some big low and slow bird but that just means you have to step up to some
better electronic that will work in your situation, I know the Public Missile
timers I have are the only timers that sense motor burn out and if you need
more well then yes a G-Wiz LCX, G-Wiz HCX, Marsa 54, Raven all are programmable
and will be better than a straight timer any way for deployment charges and any
other functions you need.
Jack G
From: tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Karl Baumheckel
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:40 PM
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
I am glad that you brought this up Ron. That was my experience with the
Perfect Flight mini timer too. It did not arm with a hybrid. When I stated
that the breakwire was better than the G switch I was refering to a deployment
charge. Staging motors is an entirely different animal.
Karl
_____
From: "Ron McGough" <rrmagoo7@xxxxxxx>
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 10:52:45 AM
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
James and others,
I consider this a very important issue concerning the breakwire method of
arming electronics. I've had to use this method when arming one of the Perfect
Flight mini timers that also uses a G switch, seems the Timer won't arm when
used while flying a hybrid. Neither will the Missle Works Pet2 timer, at least
not the last time I checked. That being said I'm curious if it is acceptable to
use a breakwire as long as an acceptable on-off switch is also used to power
the system up once the rocket is upright on the pad? It seems to me that it
can't get any safer than that.
Just to let you all know at ROC's last big launch we had an incident with this
same problem concerning the use of a timer igniting air-starts. Seems the flier
didn't use any type of on-off switch or break wire for his G-switch activated
timer (Perfect Flight). He had installed the batteries and had the rocket
laying on the ground when he went to hook up the air start igniters, bet you
can guess what happened next. Yup, the timer had activated and timed out while
the rocket was laying on it's side so when the flier hooked the wires together
it lit and luckily it only lit the one he was hooking up.
Doesn't matter what rules are out there, fliers and RSO's need to either know
how these electronics work and if they don't then get someone that does to
inspect their use.
Ron McGough
BDR
----- Original Message -----
From: James Dougherty <mailto:jafrado@xxxxxxxxx>
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 12:36 AM
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
No you can't and don't even try
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 7, 2012, at 5:22 PM, Karl Baumheckel <karlbaum@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
That is a good question. I would say that you could still use a breakwire for
timer activation. And in my opinion this is a more reliable method than the G
switch for what it's worth.
_____
From: "SCOTT B" <triptechb@xxxxxxxxx>
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 2:15:59 PM
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
Would this include activation of avionics using a breakwire for low
speed/g-force launches, or just using breakwires for lighting motors?
Scotty B.
--- On Tue, 2/7/12, AiRobert <airobert@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: AiRobert <airobert@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 11:01 AM
Yes these are switches used to for launch detect to start a second stage.
_____
From: tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Gene Engelgau
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:58 AM
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
I think a launch controller is a type of ignition system. They may be
referring to cluster and staging ignition? But yes, the TCC controller is
great as is...
-G
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Jack Garibaldi <jackgaribaldi@xxxxxxx
<about:blank> > wrote:
I still haven’t read it all but either way our launch system does not use none
of these
Jack G
From: tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <about:blank>
[mailto:tccrockets-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <about:blank> ] On Behalf Of Gene
Engelgau
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 5:57 AM
To: tccrockets@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <about:blank>
Subject: [tccrockets] Re: Tripoli Rules 2012
It references the switched in regards to motor ignition and seems to refer to
the launch controller:
2-12.6 A rocket motor shall not be ignited by any of the following:
a. A switch that uses mercury.
b. “Pull wires” that disconnect or complete a circuit.
c. “Pressure roller” switches
----
It does not make reference to av-bar arming switches.
-G
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Jack Garibaldi <jackgaribaldi@xxxxxxx
<about:blank> > wrote:
Hey All I have attached the 2012 Tripoli sanctioned rules and we are a Tripoli
club so everyone needs to read them, print them carry them or however you want
to help enforce and use our newest rules, I will get time this week to really
study them but I noticed a couple of quick ones like
Section 2-18 Participation now reads in part:
"Non-HPR Fliers are allowed in the High Power Launch Area if escorted by
a HPR Flier. A HPR Flier may escort and be accompanied by not more than
two (2) non-HPR fliers in the High Power Launch Area. The HPR flier
escort is required to monitor the actions of the escorted non-HPR
fliers, and the escort is fully responsible for those actions and for
the safety of those escorted."
There are other changes. For example, the use of mercury switches, pull
wires, and roller switches have now been banned. This means there are
various products by different manufactures that can no longer be used
for air-starts.
I don’t want to due a review until I have had time to look the complete pages
over.
Jack G
--
- Regards
Gene Engelgau
KI6IBL, NAR 86770 / TRA 12243 - L3
<http://fruitychutes.com/> http://fruitychutes.com - Consumer and Aerospace
Recovery Solutions
Like us on Facebook! <http://www.facebook.com/fruitychutes>
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408-499-9050
--
- Regards
Gene Engelgau
KI6IBL, NAR 86770 / TRA 12243 - L3
<http://fruitychutes.com/> http://fruitychutes.com - Consumer and Aerospace
Recovery Solutions
Like us on Facebook! <http://www.facebook.com/fruitychutes>
<http://twitter.com/fruitychutes/> Follow us on Twitter!
408-499-9050
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