[tcb] Re: Mega squirt

  • From: Mark Sawyer <mechmark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 08:58:00 -0700 (PDT)

Once I get the engine back in the Vanagon and do some testing, I will be better 
at answering your questions. thanks for be patient and for your help.

Dan Martin <danandkatrinamartin@xxxxxxx> wrote:  Somehow your questionnaire got 
stuck in the list server.  I think you (like Denis) have problems with @cox.com 
and @cox-internet.com, seems to freek the server out.
  Here is your questionnaire:
  

  "Okay,It's time to play 20 questions.What do you mean when you say it 
  cuts out and losing power?Does the engine act like it is quiting and 
  restarting as you are driving?.Does it happen on a light engine load sat 
  low speeds or high speeds?.Does it do it under heavy loads on a hill or 
  heavy acceleration?Will it happen any time except when it is hot?Can you 
  do anything that will change how it acts when it is acting up?Have you 
  eliminated all of the basic engine electrical system?Rotor,cap, wires, 
  coil and etc?
    You didn't say anything about what you have done before tackling the 
  FI system.(tuneup stuff) all of that has to be eliminated first.
  Have you checked the fuel volume?Could you be  pulling a vacuum on the 
  fuel tank after running for awhile?
    Write me a book. Tell me as much as you can about what is happening 
  and what has been done. It may not be a FI problem at all.
  I need more input!"
  

  

  ole blue
  

  

  Sorry for the confusion.
  I think Mark is at the show today................   
    On May 20, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Chuck Blue wrote:

    I'm waiting for a fuel injection repair report.I think I sent Mark a 
questionnaire and haven't heard anything back.Is everything fixed? 
  ole blue
    ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mark Sawyer
  To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:00 AM
  Subject: [tcb] Re: Mega squirt
  

  I have checked the fuel pressure and it is exactly where it is suppose to be. 
I have not replaced the relays. That might be a good idea since I think they 
are the original ones.
  I have replaced the ECU more than once but always with a used one. Can the 
ECU overheat and have the electronic values be effected? I have all the heat 
sinks and grounds hooked up properly. I finally found my volt meter late last 
night so I am going to unplug the ECU and start checking the values at the plug 
again. Maybe Dan could come over and give me a hand and see what he thinks 
about installing the Megasquirt.
  Thanks---Mark

Chuck Blue <sukchew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
    Have you checked your fuel pressure? I don't know what it is supposed to be 
but the pressures should be listed in you manual.do you have a fuel pump 
relay?That is also a possibility.
    I would think that with the sensors that are on that engine the megasquirt 
should be easy to install.You will probably have to install a TPS a mat sensor 
.It probably has a MAP sensor some where ,you might want to check that.You 
could have a electrical breakdown due to the heat from a long trip.Can you 
duplicate the problem with out doing the long trip thing.generally a temp 
sensor will not cause a cutting out condition.It will make things rich or lean.
    The Sciroccos seem to have lots of fuel pump problems but most of them are 
high psi systems (110psi)I don't think yours will be that high probably around 
43 psi
   I think the Megasquirt would be relatively easy to install on the 
Vanagon.Most of the sensors and injectors are Bosch and that is compatible with 
the Megasquirt system.You probably would want to use a heated narrow band 02 
sensor as it will give you better information.I have installed a wideband 02 
sensor with a controller and a digital air fuel ratio gauge on the dash.It 
allows a much finer
  Mixture adjustment but it certainly is not required.If you do decide to 
Megasquirt you might want to consider the megaview.It is a 45 second scroll of 
engine information ,some of which is really handy.You can also use it to change 
the mixture from the cockpit but it is not recommended for obvious reasons.
  ole blue
    ----- Original Message -----
  From: Mark Sawyer
  To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:05 PM
  Subject: [tcb] Re: Mega squirt
  

  Hi Chuck,
  My 84 vanagon has the original 1.9 liter, fuel injected, watercooled 
"wasserboxer" engine. it is the digijet fuel injection system with a single 
wire O2 sensor, 2 temp sensors (one for the ecu, one for the temp guage) no 
power steering, no functioning air conditioning (altho the compressor is there) 
and manual transmission. I have been having problems with the vanagon cutting 
out and loss of power while on long road trips. I have recently replaced the 
air flow meter, cleaned all the ground connections, changed ignition coils, 
checked the injectors,  the catalytic converter and the muffler are both fairly 
new. I might have a bad temp sensor from what I was checking last weekend, but 
I'm not sure. haven't been able to find my volt meter yet. any advice you could 
give would be greatly appreciated.
  Thanks, Mark

Chuck Blue <sukchew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
    Well, I don't know anything about computers,fuel injection systems,or 
building circuit boards.I don't type either so everything is an adventure.I was 
still able to build the V2.2 megasquirt FI controller and make it work.It's not 
rocket science.You just have to be able to read and follow directions.It's also 
nice if you are able to solder.If you don't know how many cylinders your engine 
has you probably shouldn't attempt the build
    What type of fuel injection system is mark running?I assume it is on a air 
cooled engine but I don't know.If some one would contact me with all of the 
information I might have some suggestions.Megasquirt can be put on anything 
that has a gas engine and be made to run.
   Does the engine have electronic FI now or is it a cis system.inquiring minds 
want to know? If it has elect.injectors the installation is much easier.If you 
want to use the squirt to controll Ignition that is also possible .I didn't 
want to attempt that because I wanted it to be as simple as possible.I went 
strictly by the book because it didn't require as much decision making as to 
which part might be substituted. All of the needed components are discussed in 
detail.
    When I built mine there wasn't any phone numbers to call so I had to learn 
to sorta use the computer to get information.It's still slow and an adventure.  
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html or http://www.msefi.com/  both have 
lots of information read everything that you can find.If anyone is serious 
about building a system print everything and start a book.Everything that you 
need to know is available on their web sites and forums.
    If marks FI system has been in use for 22 years it probably is not to bad 
of a system.It may just need someone to do a little stroking in the right spots 
sensors and things need to be checked along with connections and wiring and 
such.
  Here are a couple of numbers where I can be contacted 903 221 0434 (temp 
number)or 903 312 5257 cell numbers.If I have to do this via a list you might 
as well set it on fire because it will never get done.
   If I knew what the symptoms were and what kind of engine we are discussing I 
might be able to give a little more information.Regardless as to what Denis 
might think, I am not a mechanic but I do know quite a bit about cars,having 
worked around cars, engines and mechanics most of my life.
    I'll be glad to help out If I can.
  Man, all this typing ain't fuckin easy.
  ole blue
    ----- Original Message -----
  From: Dan Martin
  To: Chuck Blue
  Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:20 AM
  Subject: Fwd: Mega squirt
  

Hi Chuck!  Mark is continuing to have problems with his stock FI.
  I forwarded him these mails I got on the type 2 list.
  We (he,I and another friend of his) are thinking maybe mega squirt could be a 
solution.
  What do you think?
  Can you provide us with some good places to look on the net?
  Thanks!
  
  Begin forwarded message:

    From: Mark Sawyer <mechmark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Date: May 10, 2006 1:48:51 PM CDT
  To: Dan Martin <danandkatrinamartin@xxxxxxx>
  Subject: Re: Mega squirt
  

Not a word from Chuck or anybody else about fuel injection. I was doing some 
testing the other night and thing that I have a bad temp sensor. I would still 
like to invest in a system that would be more reliable than a 22 year old and 
outdated injection. I just don't know enough about computers to even know where 
to start. I am going to go get my spare engine out of the store room this 
weekend and start getting ready it ready to install. I think the engine that is 
in the vanagon now is starting to knock a little more than it use to, or I 
could just be getting paranoid. 

Dan Martin <danandkatrinamartin@xxxxxxx> wrote:  Have you heard anything from 
Chuck?  Denis and I also know the Dave Bolen listed in these e mail from the 
type2 list.
  Dave is in the VW club Denis is in now, he lives in Fayetteville, Ar..
  I know not a lot of hope for hands on help but I think you and Mark and I 
could pull it off with Dave and Chucks help.
  See what you think and I will see if we can figure some way to commucate.
  I may foeward this to them to get their opinions soon.
  
  Begin forwarded message:

    From: Gundesens <gundesen@xxxxxxx>
  Date: May 7, 2006 3:28:12 PM CDT
  To: type2@xxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon
  

  Hello list,  I am making slow progress installing a new Megasquirt injection 
system on the bus and could use a leg up from the guys who have done this on 
the same engine.
  I am using MS-II, V3.0 board, fuel only until I get everything running well, 
then ignition control as well.
  I cannot get it to idle, and only runs when I advance the ignition a lot.
  I would love to get your .msq and VE tables if you have arrived at a tuning 
set-up that you are happy with.  Are you running the original low impedance 
injectors? with PWM or resistors?
  

  Thanks very much. I will take this off list now, I just wanted to contact the 
VW guys on megasquirt as directly as I could.
  

  GG
  '82 California Vanagon
  Calgary, Alberta
  

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  Begin forwarded message:

    From: "Dave C. Bolen" <dbolen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Date: May 8, 2006 11:17:02 AM CDT
  To: andy <andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Cc: type2@xxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon
  

  Ok,
  

  So here is what I sent back this morning....not megasquirt V3, but an 
  earlier version....with pics...in a camper.
  

  Ed's site is still up and should provide you with the numbers you need.
  

  Compare pressures and injectors and go from there.
  

  Great pics also!
  

  http://tbone2091.tripod.com/megasquirt/
  

  Cheers, dave
  

  

  -- 
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I'm more interested in getting it right, than being right"....dave
  

  

  On Mon, 8 May 2006, andy wrote:
  

        Actually, can we kinda keep this a little on-the-list?
  

  

  I'd like to follow this as well. While I have no need to mess with the FI in
  the Guac, it's something I've always been interested in.
  

  Me too.
  

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  Begin forwarded message:

    From: "Dave C. Bolen" <dbolen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Date: May 8, 2006 2:59:06 PM CDT
  To: DurocShark <durocshark@xxxxxxxxx>
  Cc: andy <andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, type2@xxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon
  

  Don,
  

  Let's see if I can remember....
  

  Depends on how far you want to take it....
  

  No AFM box.(lose the intake restriction.) MS uses a throttle position 
  sensor.
  No stock ECU box.  Use MS ECU
  

  No double relay.  Use MS Relay package.
  

  If you want, you can loose the resistors for the injectors....although
  it may be a more robust system if you leave them.
  

  Lose the stock temperature sensor.  Use the GM replacement in the air 
  stream.
  

  I may have missed something along the way.
  

  The good/bad news.......
  

  You have complete contol over the ECU, which means you can program
  pretty much everything....the bad news is the same....you can do harm to 
  your engine by programming it to not inject enough gas at high speed.
  Of course, you can do that with a carb as well if you try....
  

  

  Go here to learn more.
  

  http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html
  

  

  Cheers, dave
  -- 
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
  "I'm more interested in getting it right, than being right"....dave
  

  

  On Mon, 8 May 2006, DurocShark wrote:
  

      

  

  http://tbone2091.tripod.com/megasquirt/
  

  

   That is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.
    

   Now, what is the benefit for a stock configuration to using MS as opposed to
   the stock computer?
    

  --
  Don
  The Guacamole Bus
  http://www.donimages.com/guac
  

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  Begin forwarded message:

    From: George Lyle <glyle@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Date: May 8, 2006 4:35:19 PM CDT
  To: "Dave C. Bolen" <dbolen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  Cc: DurocShark <durocshark@xxxxxxxxx>, andy 
<andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,type2@xxxxxxxxx
  Subject: Re: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon
  

  On Mon, 8 May 2006, Dave C. Bolen wrote:
  

    Go here to learn more.
  

  http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html
  

  Another alternative for those who have less time and more money:
  

  http://www.sdsefi.com
  

  I think that Jake Raby is using the SDS unit on his type 4 engines.
  

  Lots of info, including complete manuals, on that site.
  

  George
  

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  Begin forwarded message:

    From: Gundesens <gundesen@xxxxxxx>
  Date: May 8, 2006 10:29:28 PM CDT
  To: type2@xxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [T2] Re: Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon
  

  Thanks for the interest. I will eventually get pictures and a story up on my 
website.
  Benefits to me:
  Well, my existing stock setup was giving me a new problem to deal with every 
couple of months. This was attributable to 24 year old wiring being heat 
damaged so it snapped instead of flexed when bent.  Also the ECU was flaky, 
verified by swapping with a federal ECU which ran poorly, but had different 
issues than the original California one.  I just recently opened up the Cal. 
ECU and was surprised by the amount of corrosion which had crept inside it, but 
no surprise it was flaky after seeing that.  By the way, I was going to try and 
salvage and use the injector resistors which I thought were built into the ECU 
(not external on this model), but could not find them.  Perhaps Bosch used some 
sort of pulse width modulation (PWM) to control the current on the stock unit?  
The resistors should be big and obvious if they were part of the circuit.
  Right, back to the benefits...  I would have had to rebuild the wiring 
harness almost from scratch to do it right (no-one supplies rebuilt FI 
harnesses AFAIK), and find another old ECU which worked reliably (or paid the 
big bucks for the rebuild if available).  The alternative I chose was the 
Megasquirt.
  Advantages:
  - have the fun of building it (sort of like the fun of building a model 
airplane kit, but more of it)
  - Learn something about fuel injection and engine tuning in fair depth
  - simplify the whole system hardware-wise >> eliminate the AFM, coldstart 
valve, thermotime switch, double relay, decel valve. I also got rid of the 
digital ignition set-up except for my hall-effect distributor.
  - Gain a new modern fuel injection system which is totally user programmable 
(or self-tuning to an extent), for at least as good as like-new performance. I 
had just rebuilt the engine, it now has ~750 miles on it.
  - The current Megasquirt version WILL control ignition advance as well, but I 
need to get the fuel right before going there.
  

  Stock components:
  - fuel injectors
  - air filter and housing
  - temp-II sensor
  - oxygen sensor (Cal. Vanagon)
  - distributor (so far - will remove the centrifugal and vac advance 
mechanisms when I let Megasquirt control the spark)
  

  Custom or modified:
  - interface flange/tube between the S-tube and the air filter housing
  - added a GM intake air temp sensor in the air filter housing
  - modified a throttle body from a 914 to accept a Bosch potentiometer type 
throttle position sensor (TPS) - std Volvo 850 part. I couldn't use the 
original TB because the shaft did not extend out the bottom for the needed TPS.
  - put in an MSD ignition system, wires and a zero ohm distributor rotor (hey 
Richard! Niehoff WA307 - it has the narrow contact nose, but zero ohms without 
modification ~ $7)
  - added a new 'double relay' set-up for main power and fuel
  - added an add'l fuse panel to handle the MSD, fuel pump, injectors, 
megasquirt, and main power (term. 30)
  

  That's the story so far.
  

  GG
  '82 Calif Vanagon Westy - going Megasquirt
  Calgary, Alberta
  

  

  

  -
  

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