[tcb] Re: Mega squirt

  • From: "Chuck Blue" <sukchew@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:32:56 -0500

I've been out of town to a Scirooco Clan gathering in Cincy.So I'm able to 
wait.Drove 2154 miles and got over 35mpg for the trip.
ole blue
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Sawyer 
  To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:58 AM
  Subject: [tcb] Re: Mega squirt


  Once I get the engine back in the Vanagon and do some testing, I will be 
better at answering your questions. thanks for be patient and for your help.

  Dan Martin <danandkatrinamartin@xxxxxxx> wrote: 
    Somehow your questionnaire got stuck in the list server. 
    I think you (like Denis) have problems with @cox.com and @cox-internet.com, 
seems to freek the server out.
    Here is your questionnaire:


    "Okay,It's time to play 20 questions.What do you mean when you say it 
    cuts out and losing power?Does the engine act like it is quiting and 
    restarting as you are driving?.Does it happen on a light engine load sat 
    low speeds or high speeds?.Does it do it under heavy loads on a hill or 
    heavy acceleration?Will it happen any time except when it is hot?Can you 
    do anything that will change how it acts when it is acting up?Have you 
    eliminated all of the basic engine electrical system?Rotor,cap, wires, 
    coil and etc?
      You didn't say anything about what you have done before tackling the 
    FI system.(tuneup stuff) all of that has to be eliminated first.
    Have you checked the fuel volume?Could you be  pulling a vacuum on the 
    fuel tank after running for awhile?
      Write me a book. Tell me as much as you can about what is happening 
    and what has been done. It may not be a FI problem at all.
    I need more input!"




    ole blue




    Sorry for the confusion.
    I think Mark is at the show today................  


    On May 20, 2006, at 7:35 PM, Chuck Blue wrote:


      I'm waiting for a fuel injection repair report.I think I sent Mark a 
questionnaire and haven't heard anything back.Is everything fixed? 
      ole blue
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Mark Sawyer
        To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:00 AM
        Subject: [tcb] Re: Mega squirt


        I have checked the fuel pressure and it is exactly where it is suppose 
to be. I have not replaced the relays. That might be a good idea since I think 
they are the original ones.
        I have replaced the ECU more than once but always with a used one. Can 
the ECU overheat and have the electronic values be effected? I have all the 
heat sinks and grounds hooked up properly. I finally found my volt meter late 
last night so I am going to unplug the ECU and start checking the values at the 
plug again. Maybe Dan could come over and give me a hand and see what he thinks 
about installing the Megasquirt.
        Thanks---Mark

        Chuck Blue <sukchew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
          Have you checked your fuel pressure? I don't know what it is supposed 
to be but the pressures should be listed in you manual.do you have a fuel pump 
relay?That is also a possibility.
            I would think that with the sensors that are on that engine the 
megasquirt should be easy to install.You will probably have to install a TPS a 
mat sensor .It probably has a MAP sensor some where ,you might want to check 
that.You could have a electrical breakdown due to the heat from a long trip.Can 
you duplicate the problem with out doing the long trip thing.generally a temp 
sensor will not cause a cutting out condition.It will make things rich or lean.
            The Sciroccos seem to have lots of fuel pump problems but most of 
them are high psi systems (110psi)I don't think yours will be that high 
probably around 43 psi
           I think the Megasquirt would be relatively easy to install on the 
Vanagon.Most of the sensors and injectors are Bosch and that is compatible with 
the Megasquirt system.You probably would want to use a heated narrow band 02 
sensor as it will give you better information.I have installed a wideband 02 
sensor with a controller and a digital air fuel ratio gauge on the dash.It 
allows a much finer
          Mixture adjustment but it certainly is not required.If you do decide 
to Megasquirt you might want to consider the megaview.It is a 45 second scroll 
of engine information ,some of which is really handy.You can also use it to 
change the mixture from the cockpit but it is not recommended for obvious 
reasons.
          ole blue
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mark Sawyer
            To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:05 PM
            Subject: [tcb] Re: Mega squirt


            Hi Chuck,
            My 84 vanagon has the original 1.9 liter, fuel injected, 
watercooled "wasserboxer" engine. it is the digijet fuel injection system with 
a single wire O2 sensor, 2 temp sensors (one for the ecu, one for the temp 
guage) no power steering, no functioning air conditioning (altho the compressor 
is there) and manual transmission. I have been having problems with the vanagon 
cutting out and loss of power while on long road trips. I have recently 
replaced the air flow meter, cleaned all the ground connections, changed 
ignition coils, checked the injectors,  the catalytic converter and the muffler 
are both fairly new. I might have a bad temp sensor from what I was checking 
last weekend, but I'm not sure. haven't been able to find my volt meter yet. 
any advice you could give would be greatly appreciated.
            Thanks, Mark

            Chuck Blue <sukchew@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
              Well, I don't know anything about computers,fuel injection 
systems,or building circuit boards.I don't type either so everything is an 
adventure.I was still able to build the V2.2 megasquirt FI controller and make 
it work.It's not rocket science.You just have to be able to read and follow 
directions.It's also nice if you are able to solder.If you don't know how many 
cylinders your engine has you probably shouldn't attempt the build
                What type of fuel injection system is mark running?I assume it 
is on a air cooled engine but I don't know.If some one would contact me with 
all of the information I might have some suggestions.Megasquirt can be put on 
anything that has a gas engine and be made to run.
               Does the engine have electronic FI now or is it a cis 
system.inquiring minds want to know? If it has elect.injectors the installation 
is much easier.If you want to use the squirt to controll Ignition that is also 
possible .I didn't want to attempt that because I wanted it to be as simple as 
possible.I went strictly by the book because it didn't require as much decision 
making as to which part might be substituted. All of the needed components are 
discussed in detail.
                When I built mine there wasn't any phone numbers to call so I 
had to learn to sorta use the computer to get information.It's still slow and 
an adventure.  http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html or http://www.msefi.com/ 
 both have lots of information read everything that you can find.If anyone is 
serious about building a system print everything and start a book.Everything 
that you need to know is available on their web sites and forums.
                If marks FI system has been in use for 22 years it probably is 
not to bad of a system.It may just need someone to do a little stroking in the 
right spots sensors and things need to be checked along with connections and 
wiring and such.
              Here are a couple of numbers where I can be contacted 903 221 
0434 (temp number)or 903 312 5257 cell numbers.If I have to do this via a list 
you might as well set it on fire because it will never get done.
               If I knew what the symptoms were and what kind of engine we are 
discussing I might be able to give a little more information.Regardless as to 
what Denis might think, I am not a mechanic but I do know quite a bit about 
cars,having worked around cars, engines and mechanics most of my life.
                I'll be glad to help out If I can.
              Man, all this typing ain't fuckin easy.
              ole blue
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Dan Martin
                To: Chuck Blue
                Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:20 AM
                Subject: Fwd: Mega squirt


                Hi Chuck! 
                Mark is continuing to have problems with his stock FI.
                I forwarded him these mails I got on the type 2 list.
                We (he,I and another friend of his) are thinking maybe mega 
squirt could be a solution.
                What do you think?
                Can you provide us with some good places to look on the net?
                Thanks!



                Begin forwarded message:


                  From: Mark Sawyer <mechmark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                  Date: May 10, 2006 1:48:51 PM CDT
                  To: Dan Martin <danandkatrinamartin@xxxxxxx>
                  Subject: Re: Mega squirt


                  Not a word from Chuck or anybody else about fuel injection. I 
was doing some testing the other night and thing that I have a bad temp sensor. 
I would still like to invest in a system that would be more reliable than a 22 
year old and outdated injection. I just don't know enough about computers to 
even know where to start. I am going to go get my spare engine out of the store 
room this weekend and start getting ready it ready to install. I think the 
engine that is in the vanagon now is starting to knock a little more than it 
use to, or I could just be getting paranoid. 

                  Dan Martin <danandkatrinamartin@xxxxxxx> wrote: 
                    Have you heard anything from Chuck? 
                    Denis and I also know the Dave Bolen listed in these e mail 
from the type2 list.
                    Dave is in the VW club Denis is in now, he lives in 
Fayetteville, Ar..
                    I know not a lot of hope for hands on help but I think you 
and Mark and I could pull it off with Dave and Chucks help.
                    See what you think and I will see if we can figure some way 
to commucate.
                    I may foeward this to them to get their opinions soon.



                    Begin forwarded message:


                      From: Gundesens <gundesen@xxxxxxx>
                      Date: May 7, 2006 3:28:12 PM CDT
                      To: type2@xxxxxxxxx
                      Subject: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon


                      Hello list,  I am making slow progress installing a new 
Megasquirt injection system on the bus and could use a leg up from the guys who 
have done this on the same engine.
                      I am using MS-II, V3.0 board, fuel only until I get 
everything running well, then ignition control as well.
                      I cannot get it to idle, and only runs when I advance the 
ignition a lot.
                      I would love to get your .msq and VE tables if you have 
arrived at a tuning set-up that you are happy with.  Are you running the 
original low impedance injectors? with PWM or resistors?


                      Thanks very much. I will take this off list now, I just 
wanted to contact the VW guys on megasquirt as directly as I could.


                      GG
                      '82 California Vanagon
                      Calgary, Alberta


                      
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                    Begin forwarded message:


                      From: "Dave C. Bolen" <dbolen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                      Date: May 8, 2006 11:17:02 AM CDT
                      To: andy <andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                      Cc: type2@xxxxxxxxx
                      Subject: Re: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon


                      Ok,


                      So here is what I sent back this morning....not 
megasquirt V3, but an 
                      earlier version....with pics...in a camper.


                      Ed's site is still up and should provide you with the 
numbers you need.


                      Compare pressures and injectors and go from there.


                      Great pics also!


                      http://tbone2091.tripod.com/megasquirt/


                      Cheers, dave




                      -- 
                      
-------------------------------------------------------------------
                      "I'm more interested in getting it right, than being 
right"....dave




                      On Mon, 8 May 2006, andy wrote:


                            Actually, can we kinda keep this a little 
on-the-list?




                          I'd like to follow this as well. While I have no need 
to mess with the FI in
                          the Guac, it's something I've always been interested 
in.


                        Me too.


                      
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                    Begin forwarded message:


                      From: "Dave C. Bolen" <dbolen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                      Date: May 8, 2006 2:59:06 PM CDT
                      To: DurocShark <durocshark@xxxxxxxxx>
                      Cc: andy <andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, type2@xxxxxxxxx
                      Subject: Re: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon


                      Don,


                      Let's see if I can remember....


                      Depends on how far you want to take it....


                      No AFM box.(lose the intake restriction.) MS uses a 
throttle position 
                      sensor.
                      No stock ECU box.  Use MS ECU


                      No double relay.  Use MS Relay package.


                      If you want, you can loose the resistors for the 
injectors....although
                      it may be a more robust system if you leave them.


                      Lose the stock temperature sensor.  Use the GM 
replacement in the air 
                      stream.


                      I may have missed something along the way.


                      The good/bad news.......


                      You have complete contol over the ECU, which means you 
can program
                      pretty much everything....the bad news is the same....you 
can do harm to 
                      your engine by programming it to not inject enough gas at 
high speed.
                      Of course, you can do that with a carb as well if you 
try....




                      Go here to learn more.


                      http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html




                      Cheers, dave
                      -- 
                      
-------------------------------------------------------------------
                      "I'm more interested in getting it right, than being 
right"....dave




                      On Mon, 8 May 2006, DurocShark wrote:






                          http://tbone2091.tripod.com/megasquirt/




                       That is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.


                       Now, what is the benefit for a stock configuration to 
using MS as opposed to
                       the stock computer?


                        --
                        Don
                        The Guacamole Bus
                        http://www.donimages.com/guac


                      
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                    Begin forwarded message:


                      From: George Lyle <glyle@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                      Date: May 8, 2006 4:35:19 PM CDT
                      To: "Dave C. Bolen" <dbolen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                      Cc: DurocShark <durocshark@xxxxxxxxx>, andy 
<andy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,type2@xxxxxxxxx
                      Subject: Re: [T2] Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon


                      On Mon, 8 May 2006, Dave C. Bolen wrote:


                        Go here to learn more.


                        http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html


                      Another alternative for those who have less time and more 
money:


                      http://www.sdsefi.com


                      I think that Jake Raby is using the SDS unit on his type 
4 engines.


                      Lots of info, including complete manuals, on that site.


                      George


                      
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                    Begin forwarded message:


                      From: Gundesens <gundesen@xxxxxxx>
                      Date: May 8, 2006 10:29:28 PM CDT
                      To: type2@xxxxxxxxx
                      Subject: [T2] Re: Megasquirt on 82 Vanagon


                      Thanks for the interest. I will eventually get pictures 
and a story up on my website.
                      Benefits to me:
                      Well, my existing stock setup was giving me a new problem 
to deal with every couple of months. This was attributable to 24 year old 
wiring being heat damaged so it snapped instead of flexed when bent.  Also the 
ECU was flaky, verified by swapping with a federal ECU which ran poorly, but 
had different issues than the original California one.  I just recently opened 
up the Cal. ECU and was surprised by the amount of corrosion which had crept 
inside it, but no surprise it was flaky after seeing that.  By the way, I was 
going to try and salvage and use the injector resistors which I thought were 
built into the ECU (not external on this model), but could not find them.  
Perhaps Bosch used some sort of pulse width modulation (PWM) to control the 
current on the stock unit?  The resistors should be big and obvious if they 
were part of the circuit.
                      Right, back to the benefits...  I would have had to 
rebuild the wiring harness almost from scratch to do it right (no-one supplies 
rebuilt FI harnesses AFAIK), and find another old ECU which worked reliably (or 
paid the big bucks for the rebuild if available).  The alternative I chose was 
the Megasquirt.
                      Advantages:
                      - have the fun of building it (sort of like the fun of 
building a model airplane kit, but more of it)
                      - Learn something about fuel injection and engine tuning 
in fair depth
                      - simplify the whole system hardware-wise >> eliminate 
the AFM, coldstart valve, thermotime switch, double relay, decel valve. I also 
got rid of the digital ignition set-up except for my hall-effect distributor.
                      - Gain a new modern fuel injection system which is 
totally user programmable (or self-tuning to an extent), for at least as good 
as like-new performance. I had just rebuilt the engine, it now has ~750 miles 
on it.
                      - The current Megasquirt version WILL control ignition 
advance as well, but I need to get the fuel right before going there.


                      Stock components:
                      - fuel injectors
                      - air filter and housing
                      - temp-II sensor
                      - oxygen sensor (Cal. Vanagon)
                      - distributor (so far - will remove the centrifugal and 
vac advance mechanisms when I let Megasquirt control the spark)


                      Custom or modified:
                      - interface flange/tube between the S-tube and the air 
filter housing
                      - added a GM intake air temp sensor in the air filter 
housing
                      - modified a throttle body from a 914 to accept a Bosch 
potentiometer type throttle position sensor (TPS) - std Volvo 850 part. I 
couldn't use the original TB because the shaft did not extend out the bottom 
for the needed TPS.
                      - put in an MSD ignition system, wires and a zero ohm 
distributor rotor (hey Richard! Niehoff WA307 - it has the narrow contact nose, 
but zero ohms without modification ~ $7)
                      - added a new 'double relay' set-up for main power and 
fuel
                      - added an add'l fuse panel to handle the MSD, fuel pump, 
injectors, megasquirt, and main power (term. 30)


                      That's the story so far.


                      GG
                      '82 Calif Vanagon Westy - going Megasquirt
                      Calgary, Alberta






                      -


                      
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