[tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
- From: James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
or a crappy battery cable...
James
DAC
TCB
'59 23 Window Deluxe
'73/'77 Westfakia
'78 Super Vert
________________________________
From: w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:19 PM
Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
Either insufficient charge in the battery or a failing solenoid would explain
that.
On Mar 26, 2012 3:31 PM, "James Dwan" <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Cool, thanks for the detailed reply. Luckily Hammond Bros. is on the way to
work. I'll take both of them up there in the morning. It's just odd that the
original starter worked well enough to get me to the show but crapped out on my
as I tried to leave. That seems to coincidental but I guess stranger things
have happened...
>
>James
>
>
>DAC
>TCB
>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>'73/'77 Westfakia
>'78 Super Vert
>
>
>________________________________
> From: w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 2:19 PM
>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>
>
>if you took a screwdriver and shorted the lead from the battery lug on the
>starter to the spade lug from the ignition switch and got a click, you have
>one of two possible things.
>
>
>1) 90% probable: The solenoid contacts at the base (inside) are worn or
>broken. The solenoid activates (pulls current and the plunger pulls back)
>incompletely. You can check this by removing the starter and taking the
>solenoid off. Using a 12V source activate the solenoid and then check for
>continuity from the battery lug to the motor lug. If there is no continuity
>the solenoid is defective. Think of this as a big coil relay, when field
>energy (from the spade lug) from the ignition switch is applied it becomes an
>electro-magnet drawing the plunger down. At the bottom there are contacts
>which bridge from the battery lug to the motor lug and at bottom this is where
>the starter gear would be extended into the bell housing and engaged with the
>flywheel. At that point with continuity the motor will spin.
>
>
>2) or ... Bad Starter Motor. The bearings/bushings etc are worn out and it's
>now a door stop. Tapping it with a hammer can usually free up a stuck starter
>motor, that's why I suggested this method. It also works for a sticking
>solenoid as well.
>
>
>
>
>Yes it is possible to have 2 with bad solenoids because most remanufacturers
>do not change the solenoid. They test it on a bench for about 10 seconds and
>let it go. It's possible that you have worn out solenoids.
>
>
>On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 2:08 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>So I have 2 bad solenoids on 2 different starters, or I have resistance
>between the ignition switch and my solenoid?
>>
>>James
>>
>>
>>DAC
>>TCB
>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>'78 Super Vert
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 1:46 PM
>>
>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>>
>>
>>
>>you want one of these then.
>>
>>
>>http://www.smithcoelectric.com/servlet/the-465/0331302001-0331302002-0331302004-0331302005/Detail ;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 1:32 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>Yep that's what I call cross starting it. I tried that before I checked the
>>bushing. Just sparks and a click
>>>
>>>James
>>>
>>>
>>>DAC
>>>TCB
>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>'78 Super Vert
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 1:13 PM
>>>
>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Have you done the screwdriver test?
>>>
>>>
>>>even with the key off, bus in neutral the starter should engage and spin. If
>>>it doesn't replace the solenoid on the starter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:35 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>I tried cross starting it. Just a click like when turning the key. So it's
>>>gotta be electrical since it happens with both starters
>>>>
>>>>James
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>DAC
>>>>TCB
>>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>>'78 Super Vert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:25 PM
>>>>
>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, Rancho would know best however I do know that later bug transaxles
>>>>became much cheaper in their construction for example, the single side
>>>>cover (not suitable for a bus with redux boxes) and the reverse gear
>>>>retainer being only held in by a pin where the previous versions were
>>>>caged. All of this goes to how reliable the box is. VW did lots of crazy
>>>>stuff and mixed and matched parts depending upon availability too. But
>>>>I've never heard of a transaxle vw made without a bushing, maybe in the
>>>>40s? I dunno but Rancho would know best. Actually I trusted a guy name
>>>>Don Strong who ran "Der Transaxle" in cali for years but he's long since
>>>>departed this mortal coil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ever have a late model bug that wouldn't shift into reverse? I did
>>>>)(*!@#)(*!@# Pins!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now insofar as bushings are concerned, If you want to maintain the use of
>>>>stock bushings you can take any transaxle and fix the problem you're
>>>>having, one year or not. All it takes is a reamer and the right size
>>>>bushing ... ;-) Don't have a right size bushing? Get friends with
>>>>lathes... aka "My Dad's a TV repairman he has a bitchen set of tools."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, if the bushing is holding in and you greased the shaft prior to
>>>>installation, the problem isn't the bushing it's an electrical problem and
>>>>if you're not too afraid to do it you can always use a remote starter
>>>>switch (autozoo) or use the old screwdriver method and short the + lead
>>>>from the battery to the spade lug contact. You'll get a spark or two so
>>>>wear eye protection or close your eyes. If that works, your problem is
>>>>lack of current so go with the relay (extra solenoid switch)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Also try the hammer method.. hit the solenoid on the starter with a hammer
>>>>lightly and then try. If it starts then the solenoid is failing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:11 PM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Don't get me lying. All I know is it has a 12v bushing size hole in the
>>>>bell housing, but if I remember correctly it is all one unit. Not removable
>>>>like my late model Bus tranny.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If I remember correctly, someone at Rancho told me that only 1967 was a
>>>>>12v and earlier ones were 6v? this was 2 years ago, but the jist was of
>>>>>all the big nut trannys there was only one year when they made the hole
>>>>>this size. Wanna buy it? : )
>>>>>
>>>>>James
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>DAC
>>>>>TCB
>>>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>>>'78 Super Vert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> From: w.wood <evil.scientist.boo@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:03 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>One year only 12V tranny? Would this be a late model bug center section?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 11:38 AM, James Dwan <james_dwan_2000@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>I assume the flywheel is 12v since it is a one year only 12v tranny, hence
>>>>>my extreme irritation withn one individual in Ennis...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DAC
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>>>>'78 Super Vert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>> From: Denis <coocoo@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:29 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at Nac
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Change 6V stuff to 12V. OK, vintage. Got it. you might still want to look
into a starter for an automatic. But wait. Do you still have a 6V flywheel?
Never mind. I don’t think I could keep a true vintage bus on the road.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From: James Dwan
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:25 AM
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at
Nac
>>>>>> I want to keep the Bus a stock as possible so I went 6v. Change out
what?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DAC
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>>>>'78 Super
Vert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>> From: Denis
<coocoo@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:08 AM
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed...
the 23 won't be at Nac
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why not 12V? Do you not have to change out with 8V?
>>>>>>From: James Dwan
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:59 AM
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at
Nac
>>>>>> I agree. I was having trouble starting it when I first got it (it was
the bushing) so I opted for an 8V. The 8v battery has more cranking amps
and I want my lights to be as bright as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DAC
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>>>>'78 Super
Vert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>> From: Denis
<coocoo@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:54 AM
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed...
the 23 won't be at Nac
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, I’ll put this out there, although I don’t know if it applies. I was
>>>>>> dealing with the whole starter bushing thing until someone told me to
>>>>>>use a starter for an automatic transmission. I fits and works and does
>>>>>>not need a bushing. I think your problem sounds completely electrical,
>>>>>>since you say that your starter won’t spin. My two cents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh, and why an 8V battery? I never even heard of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From: James Dwan
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:01 AM
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at
Nac
>>>>>> '59
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DAC
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>>>>'78 Super
Vert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>> From: Denis
<coocoo@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:24 AM
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] Re: I'm thoroughly bummed...
the 23 won't be at Nac
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What year is your 23?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From: James Dwan
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 8:11 AM
>>>>>>To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>Subject: [tcb] I'm thoroughly bummed... the 23 won't be at
Nac
>>>>>> It started last weekend and has now gotten worse. I had to get push
started out of a tire shop on Saturday and
>>>>>>I thought I'd had it fixed yesterday but had to get push started out of a
show.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The starter won't turn. I removed the starter and figured the bushing was
the problem again. The bushing came out with the starter. I put another one in
and still nothing, I put in the old starter and after 5 attempts is started
fine. Now nothing. Robb has suggested soldering the ends of the wires to get a
good contact through the screw terminals on the ignition switch and headlight
switch. I'm gonna try that tonight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am wondering if it is possible the 8v battery is wreaking havoc with
>>>>>>the
6v switches? Has anyone had a bushing come out with the starter? I never had
and
am concerned about that as well.
>>>>>>James
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DAC
>>>>>>TCB
>>>>>>'59 23 Window Deluxe
>>>>>>'73/'77 Westfakia
>>>>>>'78 Super
Vert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>My Email Moniker
>>>>>http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1570570433.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>My Email Moniker
>>>>http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1570570433.aspx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>My Email Moniker
>>>http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1570570433.aspx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>My Email Moniker
>>http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1570570433.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>My Email Moniker
>http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1570570433.aspx
>
>
>
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