You have way too much free time. -------------- Original message -------------- From: Will Wood <evilscientistboo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Issac would point out... V^2 = U^2 + 2as at 15mph (24.014 kph) gives a velocity of 6.7 m/s gravity is 9.8 m/s^2 and assume he stopped in 1 meter. This gives an approxmate G-Force of 2.3G on impact. If we assume the engine / transaxle wheels/brakes/axles etc all suspended from and including the torsion housing is 500 lbs the force would be as much as 1150 pounds of force. YMMV. Now, I think Denis was traveling faster than 15mph because since he was hitting a tree (or about to) he was experiencing time displacement. Time was slowing down for him. Given Einstein's General Theory of Relativity and his quotation from a few years after: "For an observer falling freely from the roof of a house there exists, at least in his immediate surroundings, no gravitational field. Indeed if the observer drops some bodies then these remain to him in a state of rest or uniform motion... The observer therefore has the right to interpret his state as 'at rest' at least until he hits the ground!. " From this we can assume that Denis was going close to the speed of light until he hit the tree. He has no way of truly knowing his velocity at the time because the objects around him were in a state of rest or uniform motion. Therefore the G-Force impact would go to near Infinity and thus he created a mini black hole causing his pulley to bend. -----Original Message----- From: sammie smith Sent: Oct 15, 2008 11:07 AM To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tcb] Re: Can a collision move the engine? My experience (and I've had and seen a lot of it) is that the first thing in an accident to go is the front tranny mount. The second is the nose cone of the tranny. Unless there is some prior damage or rust rot the chances of the frame bending in other than a really total wipe out is nil. --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Will Wood <evilscientistboo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: Will Wood <evilscientistboo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [tcb] Re: Can a collision move the engine? To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:57 AM I've seen the entire rear torsion assembly shift after a front end collision, now the other damage could be caused as a side effect. Things being what they are the frame rails are probably 1/4 to 1/3 less in strength than when the left the factory so any collision could cause an accordion effect. I had a single cab that one day I tried to jack it up on the frame support rail and it crumpled. As they say, they don't get better with age. -----Original Message----- From: sammie smith Sent: Oct 14, 2008 9:26 PM To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tcb] Re: Can a collision move the engine? There ain't no way the tree caused the pulley problem; or any other engine damage. --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Denis Dodson <coocoo@xxxxxxx> wrote: From: Denis Dodson <coocoo@xxxxxxx> Subject: [tcb] Can a collision move the engine? To: tcb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 5:48 PM I have done absolutely zero work of maintenance on Murray's mechanicals since the tree kissing. When ever I did start him to move him a few yards while doing the body work, there was a banging noise that I thought was the tailpipe banging against the body metal. When Chuck and I were replacing the electronic points with real points, I noticed that the crank pulley nut was loose. It took a few turns. I also had to push the cooling tin away from the pulley. When I started the engine with Chuck looking at the engine we found that the pulley is way wobbly. There was no problem before the crash. I say that I was going, maybe, 15 MPH when I hit the tree, because I can't think that I was going much faster, maybe I was. The question is, would a front collision cause the engine to move forward, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch? How hard would I have to smack to cause the engine to go forward far enough to bend the pulley? Let's all make a wish that the crank wasn't damaged. I'll know tomorrow, maybe.