[talks-uk] Re: KNFB

  • From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:38:53 -0000

Hi Neil,

Interesting.  But have you got it to successfully read a PC screen?  I
haven't figured that one out yet, and I can do it with Si Recognizer, which
is a PC based solution.  But I am also congenitally blind, so I won't
instantly be as good at aiming, though I am getting better.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav
Sent: Sunday 16 November 2008 17:56
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: KNFB

Steve,

It doesn't work well with all screen detail, but I've used it at rail
stations to read info displays, not all the time well, but I think like you
say it's what I touch on often when talking about it, prospective is the key
to success with it.

I think that I often have success with it when others don't is because I
used to be able to see, so am always conscious of aiming correctly and
distance to what I'm taking a photo of, and what I want to encompass.



Neil Barnfather
WFA List Administrator
Talks Users Host

Don't forget TalkNav which is a Nuance accessibility and Wayfinder Access
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Dollars and Euros.

www.talknav.net
+44 161 277 7997
service@xxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 15 November 2008 17:21
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: KNFB

Hi Scott,

I think he does like it, like I do.  It gives you so much independence to be
able to read a piece of paper with some degree of accuracy, wherever you
are.

One thing where I am not sure I agree with Neil though is that it does not
read TV or computer screens as well as it reads paper, so it is quite a feat
to get it to read screens.  Not impossible, but difficult.

One thing I will say about any reading system that relies on a camera, if
you are congenitally blind, you need to be patient, and you probably won't
get perfect results the first few times, until you have learned to
centralise yourself or your camera I should say, on the object of interest.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Scott C
Sent: Saturday 15 November 2008 17:17
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] KNFB

Don't worry about it mate I don't think he likes it anyway. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt - Email Address: steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent On: 15/11/2008 17:08
Sent To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Email Address: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Kurzweil NFB reader Re: Re: sim

Hi Neil,

Just a correction, KNFB is 995, not 935, from both Sight And Sound, and us.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Neil Barnfather - TalkNav
Sent: Saturday 15 November 2008 13:37
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Kurzweil NFB reader Re: Re: sim

Graham,

I have bought the software, I think it is well worth it, and has made a big
difference to my life, having said this it is not for everyone.

Steve is correct, in theory both the Nokia 6220 and N85 are capable of
supporting the software, it's just when KNFB do the deal and release it for
those phones.

You're right as well that there is an issue over what happens when your
phone breaks but surely that rule applies to your scanner and / or PC?

When fairly weighing up the cost of KNFB on the phone be sure tat you're
fair about it, the cost of a decent scanner is about £150, plus Kirtsfil
1000 at £600, that makes the PC equivalent of KNFB Mobile at £750, now the
mobile version is as you say £935 software only from S&S, with £270 for the
N82 as found on www.play.com as of today, the cheapest I've seen it for.

That's £1200.

So £450 more, consider the scanner PC solution is stuck in one room in your
house can only read flat things and if you go out it's still right there at
home. Now the KNFB Mobile can read bottles, go anywhere with you in the
World.

Let me give you some examples, medicine bottles, right there in my medicine
cupboard upstairs,
Wine bottles, down in the cellar,
Post as it drops through the door,
Menus in restaurants,
Greeting cards both in the shop and at home or wherever,
Hotel information on the back of the door as to how to get out and where to
assemble,
Warning signs in hotel to warn that hot is very hot or that water runs fast,
Television screens, yes I've had it read Sky banners and Sky Plus menus,

Yarda, yarda, yarda, I think you've got my point, yes its very, very
expensive, but £450 isn't that much more than the PC version, and I consider
£450 well worth the portability of the solution. Even in my own home.

 

Neil Barnfather
WFA List Administrator
Talks Users Host

Don't forget TalkNav which is a Nuance accessibility and Wayfinder Access
software dealer and distributor, for all your product needs with instant
product activation and an online store supporting British Sterling, US
Dollars and Euros.

www.talknav.net
+44 161 277 7997
service@xxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: 15 November 2008 12:07
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: Kurzweil NFB reader Re: Re: sim

Hi Graham,

As I understand it, if your phone breaks, it is a free transfer, just like
getting another reset code for JAWS.  But if you upgrade your phone, the
upgrade fee is not determined yet, since the N82 phone is the only one
currently supported.

But I disagree with you completely regarding availability of phones that
support it, the N85 as far as I know has the Xenon flash, which is just
coming out, and I believe the 6220 does too, it is just a question of when
KNFB say it is OK to use these phones.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Graham Page
Sent: Saturday 15 November 2008 12:03
To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [talks-uk] Kurzweil NFB reader Re: Re: sim

it is cool software but criminally expensive.  I know that it costs money 
and development time to produce any piece of software.  I realise there is 
always going to be a limited market for this kind of access technology, but 
the amounts of money involved here are phenominal and really well out of the

range of most people.

My understanding is that really you want the Nokia N82 to run this program. 
the N82 is currently not available on contract so you need to buy one  sym 
free.

I think sight and sound do the whole package plus trainin g for around £1605

which is a fair amount to spend for anyone.

On  top of this, it is probably unreasonable to expect the N82 to last more 
than a couple of years or so.  typically people would want to upgrade the 
phone after this amount of time but if you need the phone to run the NFB 
Kurzweil reader software then there may not be a phone available that will 
run it properly.

Don't get me wrong.  the idea of being able to read while out on the move is

really great and I am fully aware that often staff inn restaurants will 
often not read the full menu because they don't speak much english or they 
think you must be too stupid to undrstand it or they just can't be bothered.

Having the ability to read a brochure in a shop for specifications of 
products would be a real benefit too.

Steve, I understand you now sell Kurzweil NFB reader.  What happens if you 
buy the product now and your phone breaks down or needs replacing in 2 
years?  Talks is being developed all the time to work with new phones but 
the situation with Kurzweil is surely somewhat less certain.

Regards

Graham

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:13 AM
Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
> Hi Eleanor,
>
> Imagine sitting in a restaurant waiting for dinner.  Normally, you 
> probably
> need someone to read the menu for you.  But with K Reader it will do a
> pretty darned good job of it.  So an earpiece and your camera, and you 
> have
> your reader wherever you are.  It is cool software.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Eleanor Burke
> Sent: Saturday 15 November 2008 09:31
> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>
> What sort of documents would you be scanning Alex sith a phone?
>
> Eleanor
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Alex Stone" <alex.stone@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:46 PM
> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>
>
>> Eleanor, KNFB Reader is a piece of software for a phone which allows you
>> to
>> scan documents using the camera on your phone. It costs nine hundred quid
>> though so it's out of my price range!
>> Cheers
>> Alex
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>> On Behalf Of Eleanor Burke
>> Sent: 14 November 2008 20:57
>> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>
>> Steve what is a KNFB reader?
>>
>> Eleanor
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:28 PM
>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>
>>
>>> Hi Eleanor,
>>>
>>> I too have an N82.  The main incentive for having this phone, is that it
>>> works with the KNFB reader.  The N95 is a good phone though.
>>>
>>> All the best
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Eleanor Burke
>>> Sent: Friday 14 November 2008 10:12
>>> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>
>>> You obviously felt it to be better than N95 then.
>>>
>>> Eleanor
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Alex Stone" <alex.stone@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:03 AM
>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have an n82.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>> On Behalf Of Eleanor Burke
>>>> Sent: 14 November 2008 09:58
>>>> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>>
>>>> OMG Alex.  What phone model do you have now?
>>>>
>>>> Eleanor
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Alex Stone" <alex.stone@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:50 AM
>>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Eleanor, I wouldn't give yourself too much of a hard time over it. 
>>>>> When
>>>>> I
>>>>> had an n95 and I first got it, I managed to break the door that holds
>>>>> the
>>>>> sim card in and had to have the phone replaced.
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:talks-uk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Eleanor Burke
>>>>> Sent: 14 November 2008 00:19
>>>>> To: talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry Kaz I really should have done better and taken the time and just
>>>>> opened my phone but I did not.  Will do better next time someone asks
>>>>> me
>>>>> a
>>>>> question.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eleanor
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Karen Burgess" <karen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 12:17 AM
>>>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> hi eleanor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ok with your description, i've finally managed to find the gate after
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> few months lol.  what i will add for any totally blind people is the
>>>>>> little leaver is on the left side of the phone with the bottom facing
>>>>>> towards you so don't look in the flat part under the battery, that is
>>>>>> where i was going wrong lol.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kaz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> email: karen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> windows live messenger: karenburgess70@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Eleanor Burke" <eleanorburke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:56 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kaz I am dreadful too but it is very easy in the N95.  There is a
>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>> catch well I am not good at describing things.  This catch at the
>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the phone is like the back of a battery holder on a portable radio.
>>>>>>> Easy
>>>>>
>>>>>>> to slide towards you using your index finger.  You can feel the 
>>>>>>> ridge
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> press in and slide towards you.  Lift the lid and there is the
>>>>>>> battery
>>>>>>> which you want to take out.  I always put the battery down with it
>>>>>>> facing
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the same position as when I take it out of the phone.  Now sometimes
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>>>> do not come out easily and it may be necessary to turn the phone 
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>>>> let the battery drop into the palm of your hand.  Main thing is
>>>>>>> rembering
>>>>>
>>>>>>> what way up the battery was in the phone and what way you place it 
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>>> table while doing the SIM.  There is then a SIM holder and it has a
>>>>>>> little lever projecting upwards.  This is very easy to lift also.  I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> useless at this type of thing but on the N95 it is easy to lift.  I
>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>> a little unstuck here as I have some vision and can see the sim 
>>>>>>> card.
>>>>>>> There is a little gold area and as I recall it is important that 
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the uppermost side.  Once placed in the holder close down the lever
>>>>>>> again, replace the battery and the back of the phone and off you go.
>>>>>>> Now
>>>>>
>>>>>>> when you turn the phone on if it does not work, then you will know
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> SIM is in upsiddown so go back and repeat the exercise and this time
>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>
>>>>>>> the SIM over the other way.  Incidentally if the power does not come
>>>>>>> back
>>>>>
>>>>>>> on then the battery will be in the wrong way round.  Be brave Scot
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> it a go. I am useless and if I can do it then so can you.  I have no
>>>>>>> doubt someone else will come with a better explanation than mine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eleanor
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Karen Burgess" <karen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:39 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [talks-uk] Re: sim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hiya scott
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> good luck with getting the sim in i've had my n95 a few months and
>>>>>>>> i'm
>>>>>>>> still none the wiser, someone had to do it for me.  its not at all
>>>>>>>> obvious, or may be its just me being thick lol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kaz
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> email: karen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> windows live messenger: karenburgess70@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>>> From: "Scott C" <castledine10@xxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: "Talks List Talks List" <talks-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:03 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [talks-uk] sim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi please can somebody tell me how exactly the sim card goes in 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> N95.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Thanks Scott
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
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