[tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)

  • From: "Joe Plummer" <joeplummer@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 22:14:20 -0500

Hmm, 400 bucks for a 3000 square foot house sounds like it should be about
right to me. My double wide is around 1400 square feet and my light bill
will run from 150 to 200 bucks a month in the summer. I have a heat pump
that is only a year old and it is a 4 ton unit. So he must have a huge unit
or more than one. Hmm, you say your house chip is 3000 square feet and your
light bill is 200 bucks?



sign,
Joe Plummer (JP)
joeplummer@xxxxxxx
 
-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Allison and Chip Orange
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 9:12 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)

Robert,

yep; I absolutely agree the state should be doing something to compensate
Tallahassee, but they aren't, and we can't make them.  btw, even those of us
who live outside the city limits pay the higher electric rates to make up
for the lack of property taxes, so this is something shared by all residents
of Leon county.  as much as county residents seem to use city services
though, I think it's fair to charge us.

as for energy issues, well, we'll see about your heaters.  I've read they're
ultimately no different than any other electric strip heating, which is to
say, not very good.

your bills are *way* to high for a house that size; why not get one of the
free energy audits?  there's got to be a problem somewhere.  we have a house
similar in size; we have a lot of things which use much more power than you
do (I'm guessing on this); this such as a pool pump motor as part of a
fountain, which costs about $80 a month to run; we have over 50 (52 I think)
windows, and a great deal of landscape lighting, and our bills are roughly
half what yours are!  you are talking just electric right, and not your
entire utility bill from the city?  I know water and sewer can add a lot to
the total.

One thing we just did was to buy a new electric hot water heater.  we got it
from Sears, for various reasons, but it has a huge amount of insulation
built into the tank, making it much much bigger than the old one, but we can
see at least $50 a month reduction in our electric bills (I think).  it's
not one of the kind the city is pushing with a heat pump built in, I am not
sure about those yet, it's just a very well insulated electric water heater
with lots of extra features designed to protect it from hard water build up.
It comes in various sizes (we got the 55 gallon tank), and I can give anyone
looking at a new tank the link to it on the Sears web site.  It was
somewhere around $400 so you're not spending too much extra money.

Chip
 

-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Easy Talk
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 6:03 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)

Just call me Joe,

The government isn't out to screw us they are already doing it on a federal,
state and local level.  Whether it is intentional or not isn't clear but
stupidity and bad management along with political favors means you get
screwed.
If I choose to live in the capital and the state exempts state buildings
from paying local property taxes, why should the citizens in the capital
carry the burden through higher utility rates since the city chooses to use
the profits from utilities which are a necessity to compensate for the
states inability to compensate the city for a state law that puts the burden
on the citizens of Tallahassee.  If the city was doing there job, why not
push the legislature to impose a penny or two on all cities utility
customers and give it to the city

As far as turning your air on or off, let's look at it this way. say you
normally set your thermostat to 70 degrease and at this setting your system
comes on once a hour for 15 minutes to matins the temperature. When you
leave to go to work at 7-30 you reduce the temperature to 65 and the weather
out side is so that your system doesn't come on at all while you are at
work.
 Now you get home at 5-30 and immediately run to the thermostat and set it
back to 70.  You were gone for nine hours so your heat didn't run for two
hours and 15 minutes while you were gone.  Try my scenario and see how long
it takes your heat system to bring the temperature up five degrease. 
depending on your house size, I think you will find it is better to set it
and for get it.  My house is about 3000 square feet and it would take our
heat pump system about four hours to obtain the 70 degrease in my scenario. 
A smaller house would take less than the 15 minutes a hour to maintain your
setting and less than the four hours in my case but you get the picture. 
Yes chip, by all means I expect to hear your findings.  One thing I have
recently done to attempt to reduce my electric bill is to purchase two
electric  oil filled radiators and put one up stairs which is where the
thermostat is located and one in the kitchen which is on the mid level of
our house.  Last night was the first time we tried this and the heat pump
didn't come on all night long.  I set the thermostat to 68 degrease and the
temperature never dropped below 70 degrease.  The electric heaters are
designed to be a supplement to your main unit and should reduce your heating
cost.  The heaters are suppose to use less than a blow dryer.  The office
which is the lowest level was cooler but in the past it was usually the
warmest place in the house since the system blower is on that level.  It
will be interesting to see how the electric bill fairs.  Our utilities bills
run between 420 and 780 a month,  now you know why I feel the way I do about
utilities bills.

Now for the issue of mole,  I have never heard of a house getting mole
because the air was turned off for 3 days, in fact I have left a rental
property closed up for 7 or 8 months with no problems.  Unless there is a
major dampness problem, I wouldn't worry about that.

Robert
    ----- Original Message -----
From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:43 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)


> you remind me of Joe Plumber there Robert; assuming government is 
> always out to "screw the citizens"!
>
> First, they don't want to build a power plant because it's very 
> expensive, and they'd have to borrow the money, thus making your 
> electric rates go up even further.  Next, they don't want to build one 
> because no one wants a power plant anywhere near them.  and finally, 
> they have some of the higher electric rates, because they have some of 
> the lowest income from property taxes, because they aren't allowed to 
> tax state buildings at all; so there's all that prime business 
> property going untaxed, and yet you expect dial-a-ride, and road 
> repairs, and audible signals, and everything else that the city needs 
> to provide.  in short, they have to get money from somewhere.
>
> As for not turning your a/c down, that's just plain wrong, and is 
> another urban myth.  you can call the city engineers, or the PSC 
> engineers, and they will confirm that there's no such thing as "your 
> system uses more electricity because it has to work harder, so you 
> actually use more electricity by using less".  sorry, just do some 
> research on the internet if you don't want to call and you'll find 
> some decent electrical engineers who will tell you this isn't so.  
> Now, don't turn your system off unless your gone 3 days, that's got a 
> grain of truth to it; but the truth is don't ever turn it off, just up 
> high enough so you'll use less, but not so high that your house might 
> start growing mold or mildew.  that's the only problem with turning it 
> off; you'll get green stuff growing.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of Easy Talk
> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 9:15 AM
> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>
> My guess is after the pilot program, the city will decide if they are 
> going to make the change or not and if they make the change we most 
> likely won't have a choice.  My question is how can they tell what 
> time we are using the electricity. Basically the time is in two 12 
> hour slots so if 1 of the twelve hour slots goes up 8 cents and the 
> other goes down four if you don't change your habits then it don't 
> look to good as far as the math goes.  In the winter nights are much 
> colder but in the summer the days are much hotter.  Every air 
> condition person I have ever talked to says the most efficient way to 
> use your air condition is to set it to a comfortable level and leave 
> it because if you raise the temperature while you are at work and then 
> lower it when you come home, the system has to work harder to reduce 
> the temperature.  They also say not to turn it off unless you are 
> going to be away for 3 days or more.
> I don't think people will change there habits in usage.  Commercial 
> business will really get the shaft and this change could affect 
> whether a business would choose to locate in Tallahassee or not.  The 
> last I knew, Tallahassee already has the highest electric rates in the 
> state of Florida.  As the population grows in the future the city will 
> have to build more power plants so why not bite the bullet and quit 
> screwing the citizens.
>
> Robert
>
>
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Plummer" <joeplummer@xxxxxxx>
> To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 9:39 PM
> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>
>
>> Well this is ok if you choose to do this and can switch back to your 
>> old plan or way if you want to but don't know if they would let you 
>> do this and also would they start charging outrageous price to switch 
>> to discourage you from doing the switch thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> sign,
>> Joe Plummer (JP)
>> joeplummer@xxxxxxx
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Allison and Chip Orange
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:47 PM
>> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>>
>> well, this is an instance where everyone benefits (working at the PSC,
>> this
>> is something I'm familiar with).
>>
>> The city doesn't have to pay to build a new power plant, if they can get
>> enough people to switch over to this new plan.  people get their
>> electricity
>> at two thirds of the current price if they switch over to the new plan.
>>
>> As far as I know of, the few problem meters have been replaced with
>> working
>> ones; so this is something where everyone gets some of the money.
>>
>> now, there's one way someone not paying attention can lose money: if you
>> switched to the new plan, the electricity you use during day-time hours 
>> is
>> much more expensive than if you had not changed plans; so, if you sign up
>> to
>> switch plans, and then you don't change your usage patterns, you'll end 
>> up
>> with a higher electric bill.
>>
>> If I recall, the city said 70% of people, if they signed up for the new
>> plan, but made no change in their usage patterns, would end up with the
>> same
>> bill they have now (I think).  This was to indicate you wouldn't have to
>> change much to start saving money.
>>
>> So, if you are looking to save every dime, I'd look into switching 
>> (unless
>> you have gas heat and gas hot water, in which case it won't make much
>> difference).
>>
>>  if you want it when you want it (that is, you aren't willing to wait 
>> till
>> night to do your wash; take your shower, etc.), then don't switch, and
>> keep
>> things as they are.
>>
>> Chip
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Easy Talk
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 6:35 PM
>> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>>
>> Well the whole idea was to cut out the meter reader so just putting it on
>> the electric only, wouldn't get the job done.  The city saves, you pay 
>> the
>> same just like the Nova 2010 scam.
>> You know the four pounds of sugar at the five pound price deal.  Most
>> likely
>> the new electric plan will mostly benefit the city or they wouldn't be
>> doing
>> it, that's why they are doing the pilot testing to see how much they 
>> would
>> make.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 5:57 PM
>> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>>
>>
>>> sorry to hear about that; but I do know they have the standard manual
>>> display still on them as a backup in cases like yours.  I had no idea
>>> though they were doing this with water meters, I only got a notice
>>> from the city about my electric meter.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>> Behalf Of Easy Talk
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 4:49 PM
>>> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>>>
>>> As far as smart meters being correct, I'll have to disagree with this
>>> since when one was installed on my rental property which was vacant
>>> and the water was turned off at the street, I got a water bill for
>>> $1,800.00 and I didn't make a typo in the amount.  After fussing with
>>> the utility department for
>>> 3
>>> months, I finally had to call the mayors office to get it sorted out.
>>> They
>>> couldn't understand why the visual reading was different than what was
>>> being sent to the computer so I suggest you get a sighted person to
>>> check your meter reading and compare it to your billed amount.  In my
>>> case it deffentantly was noticeable but if the difference is slight
>>> you might be getting screwed.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:52 PM
>>> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Joe,
>>>>
>>>> I can only say you've really got just about everything screwed up in
>>>> this reply of yours.
>>>>
>>>> first, yes, you can opt out at any time; that question, and all the
>>>> others you say aren't answered, are indeed answered on the web site
>>>> provided in the original email.  This question was actually answered
>>>> in the email, since I copied some of the questions from the site into
>>>> the first email.
>>>>
>>>> next, nobody said anything about just having a smart meter would
>>>> lower your bill.  that wasn't claimed, because they are a standard
>>>> electric meter in every way, except that they can be read remotely
>>>> over the internet.  they do not give false readings, and they have
>>>> not caused anyone's bill to go up unjustly.  there has been no
>>>> misreading by city workers.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it's possible if you go on this plan for you to have a higher
>>>> bill (if you use all your electricity during the peak daytime hours);
>>>> you do have to read and understand it before doing something like
>>>> signing up, or shooting off a reply full of misinformation.
>>>>
>>>> No, having residential customers switch their usage patterns because
>>>> of this program will not change the peak load times; that's because
>>>> peak load is largely a function of commercial use (that's why
>>>> holidays are given to you at the cheaper rate, just like night time
>>>> usage).
>>>>
>>>> The city does provide all of these answers on their web site, and
>>>> time of day pricing for electricity is something which has been in
>>>> common use across the country for 20 years I'd guess.
>>>>
>>>> this is a way for people who have very limited amounts of money to
>>>> save a little more; you should not try and stop them from doing so by
>>>> spouting a lot of conspiracy theory, or anti-government rhetoric
>>>> which isn't backed up with any facts.  It's also a very
>>>> environmentally friendly thing to do, as it keeps us from having to
>>>> build new power plants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of Joe Plummer
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:24 PM
>>>> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [tabi] Re: new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I heard about this from the Morning show on WFLA FM . The
>>>> problem is with this is like the smart meters what if it really ended
>>>> up with a higher cost to you and two if you decided you did not like
>>>> it or it did not fit your needs could you opt out of it. These
>>>> questions have not yet been answer. Also would if enough people got
>>>> on this ban wagon wouldn't it change the peek time?  This then would
>>>> throw you in a higher electric plan.
>>>> Also the question is if your house or rental is not energy efficient
>>>> how would this effect your cost with these smart thermostat. So lots
>>>> of questions and so far no answers from the city and lots more
>>>> question that have not been listed here that has not been answered
>>>> yet. Don't forget the smart meter was supposed to lower people
>>>> electric bill and did exactly the opsit. No one has gave a good
>>>> reason why this has happen. The best answer they came up with here is
>>>> that the meter readers was not reading the meters right. Now you are
>>>> saying that the city employed meter readers that could not read and
>>>> write ? I don't think so I think the smart meters is just not working
>>>> right but guess what you can't do anything about it but pay the bill.
>>>> So in my opinion is to be careful what you sign up for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sign,
>>>> JP ( Joe Plummer)
>>>> joeplummer@xxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of Allison and Chip Orange
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 2:58 PM
>>>> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [tabi] new electricity pricing plan (optional)
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> below is info on the new optional electricity pricing plan.  instead
>>>> of a single price, you can switch to a plan which prices it based on
>>>> the time of day when you  use the power.
>>>>
>>>> To go with this, you can purchase thermostats which automatically
>>>> change their temp settings based on the time of day, along with
>>>> electric hot water timers which do the same thing.
>>>>
>>>> Chip
>>>>
>>>> -------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The City Commission approved the first optional rate plan at its
>>>> October 27, 2010 meeting. This new offering is known as the Nights &
>>>> Weekends Pricing Program. As a new Energy Smart Plus program, it
>>>> offers customers an alternative rate option with a lower price on
>>>> electricity used during nights
>>>> (7 p.m. - 7 a.m.), weekends and holidays at 7.921 cents / kWh and a
>>>> higher rate during weekdays (7 a.m. - 7 p.m.) at 22.264 cents / kWh.
>>>> The program is open to 2,000 City of Tallahassee Electric customers
>>>> as a pilot from November 1, 2010 through April 30, 2012.
>>>>
>>>> More info at: http://www.talgov.com/you/energy/nw.cfm
>>>> Frequently Asked Questions and Answers from that site are copied below.
>>>>
>>>> Q: What are the rates associated with Nights & Weekends?
>>>> A: Currently, our electricity is at 12.158 cents / kWh all day, every
>>>> day.
>>>> The new plan will be split between Daytime @ 22.264 cents / kWh and
>>>> Nights
>>>
>>>> &
>>>> Weekends @ 7.921 cents / kWh. State holidays are also at the Nights &
>>>> Weekends rate of 7.921 cents / kWh.
>>>>
>>>> Q: Can I stop the program at any time?
>>>> A: Yes, but if you return to the program, we will ask you to stay for
>>>> a minimum of one year.
>>>>
>>>> Q: If I leave the program will I be able to re-enroll?
>>>> A: Yes, as long as there are available spots in the program; and
>>>> you'll be required to remain on the plan for at least a full year.
>>>>
>>>> Q: When does this program start?
>>>> A: Customers can start signing up on November 1, 2010.
>>>>
>>>> Q: How can I sign up?
>>>> A: Call 891.4YOU (4968) or fill out a Customer Request Form for more
>>>> information or to sign up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
>>>> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
>>>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org
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>>>>
>>>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
>>>> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
>>>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org
>>>> web interface, or by sending an email to the address
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>>>>
>>>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
>>>> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
>>>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org
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>>>
>>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
>>> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
>>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org
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>>>
>>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
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>>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org
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>>
>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
>> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>
>>
>>
>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web
>> interface, or by sending an email to the address
>> tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.
>>
>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
>> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>
>>
>>
>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web
>> interface, or by sending an email to the address
>> tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.
>>
>> Check out the TABI resource web page at
>> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
>> and please make suggestions for new material.
>>
>>
>>
>> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web
>> interface, or by sending an email to the address
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>
> Check out the TABI resource web page at
> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
> and please make suggestions for new material.
>
>
>
> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web
> interface, or by sending an email to the address 
> tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.
>
> Check out the TABI resource web page at 
> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
> and please make suggestions for new material.
>
>
>
> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web 
> interface, or by sending an email to the address 
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Check out the TABI resource web page at
http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web
interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at
http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web
interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web 
interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
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