[tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

Dear Robert,

That is the next step: making the city aware, really aware, of the many unsafe transfer points; it might be able to grab some stimulus money to bring some of these projects to fruition.

Darla

P.S. Just because someone disagrees with you, Denyce, that doesn't make him/her wrong or you right or vise versa. This is a very critical topic, and the more discussion and sharing of ideas the better.

Darla


----- Original Message ----- From: "Easy Talk" <easytalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:28 AM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


Chip, You hit the nail on the head

"I am hoping that everyone will become informed as to what may happen,
and how it may work."

No matter what the out come, we have discussed the subject very well and have done our best to make Star Metro aware of our situation and if we make the city aware of the safety issues then it will be part of the record and will make the city libel for there actions. If they choose to ignore it an attorney will have a ball with it if someone gets hurt. The city should already know they can be sued since they have already lost a few cases.

Robert

----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


well, I believe all 3 of us (Robert, William, and I) do consider what we
have said to be topic related.  there will be disagreements, even when
talking on topic;  that's the nature of a conversation.

It's very important to everyone however, to have these discussions in the
open.  nothing should be done in secret, and each of our posts provides
everyone who wishes to learn more about the subject, an opportunity to do
so. I am hoping that everyone will become informed as to what may happen,
and how it may work.

if it's not effecting you at the moment, then it may in the future when Big Bend may stop offering $5 rides to supplement dial-a-ride's shortfall. and if not you personally, then because it effects others whom you want to help.

Chip

Chip


-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Denyece Roberts MSW
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:18 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

I think you all should keep your arguments off this list, and just stick
with the topic at hand. If you got to fight about it fight it out somewhere else. Everyone is entitled to speak their minds as long as it doesn't offend
anyone else.  When that happens get their email address and deal with it
there. You ask for feed back so when someone gives you their opinion that's
it just their opinion. You want hear from me again unless it is  topic
related.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:44 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


Hi William,

you've seen Robert's reply, and I'm afraid he's right on every point.

I know there's history between you two however, and I'm concerned you
won't listen to him, so let me explain why I disagree with you:

first, no, no one can "guarantee" my safety; however, that's no reason
not to plan.  if we followed that train of thought everywhere it lead
us, we wouldn't bother with red lights, or safety belts, or air bags,
or any other type of planning in which we try to avert disaster.

you need to understand my objection wasn't to the grid system; in my
opinion it's not even worth discussing until we first plan for safety
of all passengers.  if StarMetro can do that, then we may have a grid
system after all; but, they need to try first.  if they didn't plan
for safety then they wouldn't bother hiring well-trained drivers to
drive the buses, they'd just let anyone who wanted do so; safety is
something they *must* consider every day.

Robert has addressed the point about being a "trouble maker"; no more
need be said on that.

as for being a helpless minority who are at the mercy of a crushing,
overwhelming, majority: I have to say that's such a shocking attitude
that I don't quite know where to begin.  I think it's sufficient to
say that our society has numerous laws designed to protect helpless
minorities; they're specifically in place so that these helpless
minorities don't have to roll-over and just say "yes sir" and "no sir"
out of fear for what will happen otherwise.  I'm thinking of laws to
protect against rape; against being a battered wife; and against
racial discrimination just to name a few.
no one would dare tell a woman not to make trouble about her safety
because she's a minority and something might happen to her if she
does.

There's nothing wrong with your working with StarMetro, don't get me
wrong; but given the message you just wrote, it sounds like you've
completely forgotten who you're representing when you're working with
StarMetro; it's blind people who have a wide range of opinions.

And finally, this is the second time you or Sally have made a
reference to my not riding the buses, and implied somehow that
therefore, I'm not entitled to an opinion.  I'd like to point out that
I have ridden the buses in the past, and I have an opinion now for the
same reason I write free software, or operate tabi, or donate many
hours a week to helping blind people with computer problems.  in each
and every case it's a desire to help blind people of all varieties
along with their lives.  I have an opinion on the plans for the bus
system out of concern for those who may be injured, and who in my
opinion weren't being spoken up for.

And finally, if you'll get over being angry you'll see my remarks
weren't designed to stop nova 2010, but just to modify one part of it
while it's in the planning stage, and before we have an injury to make
us do so.  the city planner whom I spoke with and I had several ideas
as to how that might be done, and still go forward.  and my comments
were only going to the city commission if the issue was not worked out
in the next few months; that's exactly why they are having listening
sessions right now, to try and do that.

so, I conclude with I deny that I'm a trouble maker, I think I'm a
planner.

Chip

-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of blindwilly
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:58 AM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

Chip,

Did you ever think that the city commissioners can never guarantee your
safety. Even sighted pedestrians and drivers have accidents. There are
only two audible crossings now, but they are going to try to address the
rest and we will never get there if we don't start.   Your refusal to
consider or compromise means we will never get any where.

We are not helpless and we don't need the entire world to change just to
guarantee our safety.   I know who walks the streets and who never sets
foot
on the sidewalk.   I am tired of this bashing that is going to build a
wall
between us and them. We need to work with them or they will do what they
want and we will be labeled as trouble makers and we will be left
behind, because they are the powerful majority and we are not.

I have been trying to be reasonable and they are listening to us by
coming to our TCB meeting and to the Light House, but if we go in
there with guns blazing, then we are going to loose our position of
reason.

William




----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Orange <mailto:Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 11:54 AM
Subject: [tabi] my object to Nova 2010

hi all,

I spoke with a StarMetro planner yesterday, and he said only 2
intersections of the possible 41 proposed for transfer points,
currently have audible signals. (I think Lynn did tell us that).



perhaps, just perhaps, they'll be able to add 10, even 20, in the next
year, but by no means all of them will get audible signals.

the point I made to him, and the one I intend to make to the city
commission unless there is a dramatic change in the plan, is that no
intersection, even with an audible signal, is safe for a blind person
to cross. audible signals only make it somewhat safer, but many of our
local
blind residents can testify about being hit.   I don't think even our
best,
most skillful, independent travelers, can say that crossing an
intersection such as many of those proposed by StarMetro is safe; and,
a number of our blind residents do not fall into the class of our
"most skillful"
independent travelers.





I intend to urge the city commission to deny the entire plan until the
safety of disable riders can be assured by never requiring a transfer
through an intersection; StarMetro has got to be forced to come up
with another way to handle transfers.

I know others of you have other objections to the plan, and I've heard
and agree with a lot of them, but this is to me, the single really
good one, which is good enough to warrant the city commission stopping
implementation until it is worked out.



I do support other objections which have been raised, including the
one I just mentioned that with all the bus stops moving to new
locations, they are going to be hard to find, and that the routes and
the location of stops require a lot of walking at times, which itself
is also unsafe.  but when I write the commission after the plan is
submitted to them, I am only going to focus on the safety issue, as I
think it's the most important, and I don't want to overwhelm them in
my letter with les important objections.



I hope all of you will consider writing to the city commission, but
not until the plan has been submitted to them.  any letters before
then are evidently just forwarded to StarMetro, without engaging the
commissioners'
attention.



thanks.





Chip






------------------------------

Chip Orange
Database Administrator
Florida Public Service Commission

Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(850) 413-6314

(Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.)





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and please make suggestions for new material.



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and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.


Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by 
sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word 
"unsubscribe" in the subject.

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