[tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

  • From: "Charles Atkins" <catkins@xxxxxxx>
  • To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:58:49 -0500

Horrendous!

That was quite sometime ago!

I'll have to do that the next time.

If ever there will be one!

I don't trust any of it but the cab and can't afford it but, I pay for it anyhow!


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Evans" <evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:30 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


One of the first things that need to be done when you do get back home is up the phone and talk with a supervisor at Star Metro and tell them what happened to you.

The same thing happpened to be but the driver said I was at the stop I had requested. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Atkins" <catkins@xxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


I had received immaculate lessons through fire before it became The Lighthouse and loved it so much and just knew I was on for the duration and it changed one afternoon.

Upon boarding the bus,

I requested the bus driver call out the stops until I got off and he said he would but,

then reaching the next stop he was engaged by a traveler in conversation.

Make a long story short,

I ended up missing my stop and was let out a couple stops past my stop and was helped a few yards away from the bus to where I'd wait for the next thing or bus smoking.just as it begun to thunder and rain.

Because God spared me,I didn't get drenched but, it sure as hell ,

was scary

Thinking I might!


----- Original Message ----- From: "Sila Miller" <silam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


Thank you for sharing honestly, Chip.

I don't use the bus very often for a number of reasons.

First is the time it takes and these days, time seems to be more precious than money. My first bus doesn't go by here until 7:00 and I can't make it to work until 8:20 or so, depending upon traffic. My schedule is from 7:30 - 4:30.

Secondly, I am uncomfortable, no, lets be honest, afraid of walking to the stop alone in the early morning dark when there aren't many folks out and about.

The last few times I've used the bus, I called ahead to get further info about direction of travel of the bus, which side of the road the stop was located at or other information that I couldn't seem to Decipher from the online schedule. Twice now, I've missed a bus either from my lack of communication skills/ability to ask the right questions in the right way or the person at StarMetro's inability to understand what info I was looking for. At any rate, missing the bus is frustrating, time consuming and totally avoidable.

The last reason has much to do with vanity. If it's raining and I have a meeting with outside vendors or other professionals on my job and am expected to look half-way decent I end up at work looking like a drowned rat instead. Not real professional!

So, while these reasons may not be yours, they are important and valid to me. I realize StarMetro isn't responsible for the weather and I will do what I have to do to get to work.

The other point I'd like to make in this post is that we have a golden window of opportunity right now to help make a positive difference here in our bus system. We should ask for what we need while change is afoot. Remember the voting fiasco/problems with CHADS and such and what an opportunity that afforded blind people to get their foot in the door towards accessible voting? Well, let's jump on it.

The points that others have made regarding folks perhaps not being as mobility savvy or having more severe disabilities is a good one. I've had an opportunity to learn this lesson well, working with the Lighthouse and some of our newly blind consumers. While we can all benefit from a challenge once in a while, let's not accept an unreasonable or unsafe challenge from our public transportation system.

Excellent discussions and points of view. Let's remember we are adults and debate is acceptable. Sometimes it can become heated and uncomfortable for some but you can learn much from others' points of view and what they have to say. So, jump on in. Don't be afraid to state your point of view and then stand firm in explaining and/or defending it.

Take care,
Sila

----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:17 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


Lynn,

probably it's because I'm physically too ill; riding in a car is
uncomfortable for me, and riding in a bus is both even less comfortable and
a longer ride.

walking is too, and the nearest bus stop would be a mile from my house, and
I would have to walk along a road with no sidewalk, and a ditch on each
side. this road has several hills which block you from the cars sight until
they're right upon you (maybe literally).

and now, the third reason, because we did look into a park-and-ride, is
because it takes so long; 1.5 hours compared to 20 minutes.

Chip



-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Lynn Evans
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 8:07 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

If you are not riding the bus now please tell us why and drop a line to Star
Metro to let them know what it will take to get you on the bus.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:36 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


btw, I would like to hear from you (and many others), as to what your
thoughts are so far, on this topic. there are far too many people staying silent. if you're staying silent because you think this doesn't effect
you,
then please say so, but please be part of the conversation.

Chip


-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf
Of Denyece Roberts MSW
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:18 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

I think you all should keep your arguments off this list, and just stick
with the topic at hand.  If you got to fight about it fight it out
somewhere
else. Everyone is entitled to speak their minds as long as it doesn't
offend
anyone else. When that happens get their email address and deal with it
there. You ask for feed back so when someone gives you their opinion
that's
it just their opinion. You want hear from me again unless it is  topic
related.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:44 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


Hi William,

you've seen Robert's reply, and I'm afraid he's right on every point.

I know there's history between you two however, and I'm concerned you
won't listen to him, so let me explain why I disagree with you:

first, no, no one can "guarantee" my safety; however, that's no reason
not to plan.  if we followed that train of thought everywhere it lead
us, we wouldn't bother with red lights, or safety belts, or air bags,
or any other type of planning in which we try to avert disaster.

you need to understand my objection wasn't to the grid system; in my
opinion it's not even worth discussing until we first plan for safety
of all passengers.  if StarMetro can do that, then we may have a grid
system after all; but, they need to try first.  if they didn't plan
for safety then they wouldn't bother hiring well-trained drivers to
drive the buses, they'd just let anyone who wanted do so; safety is
something they *must* consider every day.

Robert has addressed the point about being a "trouble maker"; no more
need be said on that.

as for being a helpless minority who are at the mercy of a crushing,
overwhelming, majority: I have to say that's such a shocking attitude
that I don't quite know where to begin.  I think it's sufficient to
say that our society has numerous laws designed to protect helpless
minorities; they're specifically in place so that these helpless
minorities don't have to roll-over and just say "yes sir" and "no sir"
out of fear for what will happen otherwise.  I'm thinking of laws to
protect against rape; against being a battered wife; and against
racial discrimination just to name a few.
no one would dare tell a woman not to make trouble about her safety
because she's a minority and something might happen to her if she
does.

There's nothing wrong with your working with StarMetro, don't get me
wrong; but given the message you just wrote, it sounds like you've
completely forgotten who you're representing when you're working with
StarMetro; it's blind people who have a wide range of opinions.

And finally, this is the second time you or Sally have made a
reference to my not riding the buses, and implied somehow that
therefore, I'm not entitled to an opinion. I'd like to point out that I have ridden the buses in the past, and I have an opinion now for the
same reason I write free software, or operate tabi, or donate many
hours a week to helping blind people with computer problems.  in each
and every case it's a desire to help blind people of all varieties
along with their lives.  I have an opinion on the plans for the bus
system out of concern for those who may be injured, and who in my
opinion weren't being spoken up for.

And finally, if you'll get over being angry you'll see my remarks
weren't designed to stop nova 2010, but just to modify one part of it
while it's in the planning stage, and before we have an injury to make
us do so.  the city planner whom I spoke with and I had several ideas
as to how that might be done, and still go forward.  and my comments
were only going to the city commission if the issue was not worked out
in the next few months; that's exactly why they are having listening
sessions right now, to try and do that.

so, I conclude with I deny that I'm a trouble maker, I think I'm a
planner.

Chip

-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of blindwilly
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:58 AM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

Chip,

Did you ever think that the city commissioners can never guarantee your safety. Even sighted pedestrians and drivers have accidents. There
are
only two audible crossings now, but they are going to try to address the
rest and we will never get there if we don't start.   Your refusal to
consider or compromise means we will never get any where.

We are not helpless and we don't need the entire world to change just to guarantee our safety. I know who walks the streets and who never sets
foot
on the sidewalk. I am tired of this bashing that is going to build a
wall
between us and them.   We need to work with them or they will do what
they
want and we will be labeled as trouble makers and we will be left
behind, because they are the powerful majority and we are not.

I have been trying to be reasonable and they are listening to us by
coming to our TCB meeting and to the Light House, but if we go in
there with guns blazing, then we are going to loose our position of
reason.

William




----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Orange <mailto:Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 11:54 AM
Subject: [tabi] my object to Nova 2010

hi all,

I spoke with a StarMetro planner yesterday, and he said only 2
intersections of the possible 41 proposed for transfer points,
currently have audible signals. (I think Lynn did tell us that).



perhaps, just perhaps, they'll be able to add 10, even 20, in the next
year, but by no means all of them will get audible signals.

the point I made to him, and the one I intend to make to the city
commission unless there is a dramatic change in the plan, is that no
intersection, even with an audible signal, is safe for a blind person
to cross. audible signals only make it somewhat safer, but many of our
local
blind residents can testify about being hit.   I don't think even our
best,
most skillful, independent travelers, can say that crossing an
intersection such as many of those proposed by StarMetro is safe; and,
a number of our blind residents do not fall into the class of our
"most skillful"
independent travelers.





I intend to urge the city commission to deny the entire plan until the
safety of disable riders can be assured by never requiring a transfer
through an intersection; StarMetro has got to be forced to come up
with another way to handle transfers.

I know others of you have other objections to the plan, and I've heard
and agree with a lot of them, but this is to me, the single really
good one, which is good enough to warrant the city commission stopping
implementation until it is worked out.



I do support other objections which have been raised, including the
one I just mentioned that with all the bus stops moving to new
locations, they are going to be hard to find, and that the routes and
the location of stops require a lot of walking at times, which itself
is also unsafe.  but when I write the commission after the plan is
submitted to them, I am only going to focus on the safety issue, as I
think it's the most important, and I don't want to overwhelm them in
my letter with les important objections.



I hope all of you will consider writing to the city commission, but
not until the plan has been submitted to them.  any letters before
then are evidently just forwarded to StarMetro, without engaging the
commissioners'
attention.



thanks.





Chip






------------------------------

Chip Orange
Database Administrator
Florida Public Service Commission

Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(850) 413-6314

(Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.)





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and please make suggestions for new material.



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and please make suggestions for new material.



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and please make suggestions for new material.



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and please make suggestions for new material.



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and please make suggestions for new material.



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