[tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

  • From: "Easy Talk" <easytalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 08:22:09 -0500

Hi Denyece,

I don't think anyone is arguing, so as you tell me, chill. What we are talking about is advocacy and opinions.

Robert

----- Original Message ----- From: "Denyece Roberts MSW" <peace05@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:18 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


I think you all should keep your arguments off this list, and just stick with the topic at hand. If you got to fight about it fight it out somewhere else. Everyone is entitled to speak their minds as long as it doesn't offend anyone else. When that happens get their email address and deal with it there. You ask for feed back so when someone gives you their opinion that's it just their opinion. You want hear from me again unless it is topic related. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:44 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010


Hi William,

you've seen Robert's reply, and I'm afraid he's right on every point.

I know there's history between you two however, and I'm concerned you won't
listen to him, so let me explain why I disagree with you:

first, no, no one can "guarantee" my safety; however, that's no reason not
to plan.  if we followed that train of thought everywhere it lead us, we
wouldn't bother with red lights, or safety belts, or air bags, or any other
type of planning in which we try to avert disaster.

you need to understand my objection wasn't to the grid system; in my opinion
it's not even worth discussing until we first plan for safety of all
passengers. if StarMetro can do that, then we may have a grid system after all; but, they need to try first. if they didn't plan for safety then they wouldn't bother hiring well-trained drivers to drive the buses, they'd just let anyone who wanted do so; safety is something they *must* consider every
day.

Robert has addressed the point about being a "trouble maker"; no more need
be said on that.

as for being a helpless minority who are at the mercy of a crushing,
overwhelming, majority: I have to say that's such a shocking attitude that I
don't quite know where to begin.  I think it's sufficient to say that our
society has numerous laws designed to protect helpless minorities; they're
specifically in place so that these helpless minorities don't have to
roll-over and just say "yes sir" and "no sir" out of fear for what will
happen otherwise.  I'm thinking of laws to protect against rape; against
being a battered wife; and against racial discrimination just to name a few. no one would dare tell a woman not to make trouble about her safety because
she's a minority and something might happen to her if she does.

There's nothing wrong with your working with StarMetro, don't get me wrong;
but given the message you just wrote, it sounds like you've completely
forgotten who you're representing when you're working with StarMetro; it's
blind people who have a wide range of opinions.

And finally, this is the second time you or Sally have made a reference to
my not riding the buses, and implied somehow that therefore, I'm not
entitled to an opinion. I'd like to point out that I have ridden the buses
in the past, and I have an opinion now for the same reason I write free
software, or operate tabi, or donate many hours a week to helping blind
people with computer problems. in each and every case it's a desire to help blind people of all varieties along with their lives. I have an opinion on
the plans for the bus system out of concern for those who may be injured,
and who in my opinion weren't being spoken up for.

And finally, if you'll get over being angry you'll see my remarks weren't
designed to stop nova 2010, but just to modify one part of it while it's in the planning stage, and before we have an injury to make us do so. the city
planner whom I spoke with and I had several ideas as to how that might be
done, and still go forward.  and my comments were only going to the city
commission if the issue was not worked out in the next few months; that's
exactly why they are having listening sessions right now, to try and do
that.

so, I conclude with I deny that I'm a trouble maker, I think I'm a planner.

Chip

-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of blindwilly
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 7:58 AM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: my object to Nova 2010

Chip,

Did you ever think that the city commissioners can never guarantee your
safety. Even sighted pedestrians and drivers have accidents. There are
only two audible crossings now, but they are going to try to address the
rest and we will never get there if we don't start.   Your refusal to
consider or compromise means we will never get any where.

We are not helpless and we don't need the entire world to change just to
guarantee our safety. I know who walks the streets and who never sets foot on the sidewalk. I am tired of this bashing that is going to build a wall between us and them. We need to work with them or they will do what they
want and we will be labeled as trouble makers and we will be left behind,
because they are the powerful majority and we are not.

I have been trying to be reasonable and they are listening to us by coming to our TCB meeting and to the Light House, but if we go in there with guns
blazing, then we are going to loose our position of reason.

William




----- Original Message ----- From: Chip Orange <mailto:Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 11:54 AM
Subject: [tabi] my object to Nova 2010

hi all,

I spoke with a StarMetro planner yesterday, and he said only 2
intersections of the possible 41 proposed for transfer points, currently
have audible signals. (I think Lynn did tell us that).



perhaps, just perhaps, they'll be able to add 10, even 20, in the
next year, but by no means all of them will get audible signals.

the point I made to him, and the one I intend to make to the city
commission unless there is a dramatic change in the plan, is that no
intersection, even with an audible signal, is safe for a blind person to
cross. audible signals only make it somewhat safer, but many of our local
blind residents can testify about being hit. I don't think even our best, most skillful, independent travelers, can say that crossing an intersection
such as many of those proposed by StarMetro is safe; and, a number of our
blind residents do not fall into the class of our "most skillful"
independent travelers.





I intend to urge the city commission to deny the entire plan until
the safety of disable riders can be assured by never requiring a transfer
through an intersection; StarMetro has got to be forced to come up with
another way to handle transfers.

I know others of you have other objections to the plan, and I've
heard and agree with a lot of them, but this is to me, the single really
good one, which is good enough to warrant the city commission stopping
implementation until it is worked out.



I do support other objections which have been raised, including the
one I just mentioned that with all the bus stops moving to new locations,
they are going to be hard to find, and that the routes and the location of stops require a lot of walking at times, which itself is also unsafe. but when I write the commission after the plan is submitted to them, I am only going to focus on the safety issue, as I think it's the most important, and I don't want to overwhelm them in my letter with les important objections.



I hope all of you will consider writing to the city commission, but
not until the plan has been submitted to them. any letters before then are evidently just forwarded to StarMetro, without engaging the commissioners'
attention.



thanks.





Chip






------------------------------

Chip Orange
Database Administrator
Florida Public Service Commission

Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(850) 413-6314

(Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.)





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and please make suggestions for new material.



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Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by 
sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word 
"unsubscribe" in the subject.

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