Chip I agree but I also wonder if this isn't a measure to cut budgets by the city since now evening and night services won't be expanded. Also the fact they don't have a roll back plan tells me this whole plan is going to be shoved down our throats whether the citizens want it or not. I have always said from the beginning if the city and Starmetro wanted to improve bus service, they just need to eliminate C K Steel plaza and have different transfer points and not reduce the coverage area. In my opinion this is the political sausage meal. Once the plan is passed, there is no telling what will be or not be in the sausage. Another interesting thing is that Star Metro had all the public input meetings and after they were all held, they changed horses in the middle of the stream so there will be no public input on the new factors. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: Allison and Chip Orange To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: [tabi] Re: from today's Democrat: Lack of quorum stalls vote on bus changes You know, I think the lack of a roll-back plan shows the level of arrogance StarMetro has exhibited throughout this entire process. Chip ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of daviska9 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:49 PM To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tabi] Re: from today's Democrat: Lack of quorum stalls vote on bus changes Hi All, There are a couple new things you should know. 1. The night and Sunday service is no longer going to be improved beyond what we already have. For those of you who can read PDF documents, I am attaching the simple night service plan. This was revised after the commission cut more money out of StarMetro's budget. 2. I did bring up the rollback plan at this last meeting. It had been bothering me that nothing along those lines had been mentioned. As I'm sure Chip and Robert can attest to, when you deal with computer software and hardware rollouts, you are supposed to have a rollback plan. I have to state one every time I submit revisions to the systems I work on. When I brought it up, they admitted they weren't counting on doing that cause they didn't count on this measure failing. Sam did admit they would still have Steel Plaza, and other pieces of the current system, he supposed they could go back to our current rout system if necessary, but it wasn't on the books. I have to admit, Robert brings up a good analogy between what we used to pay for and what we get now for the same money, believe me, all of this is on my mind as I look at how I personally will vote. I need to remind all of you, that the TAC is a citizens advisory board, so I can only hope that the commission will actually look at the decision depending on how it comes out. Hope this attachment helps clarify some of your current questions. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Allison and Chip Orange Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:05 PM To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tabi] Re: from today's Democrat: Lack of quorum stalls vote on bus changes You bring up a very important point Robert: it's not anything particular about nova 2010; it's that this has been the most concerted effort, the most cooperative effort from the different groups, of the local blind community that I've ever seen anyway. It's the primary reason I first put TABI together, to try and provide a talking place for the different groups, and no matter how the bus system turns out, we've proven to ourselves that we can do things like this together. It's a good start, and I hope too many people don't end up leaving it, when it's all over, with any hurt feelings. Instead, they ought to be proud of what they were able to contribute, despite their hurt feelings (because we all get them at times). being able to keep going after our feelings get hurt, or after we lose a battle, shows us what kind of people we really are. As for the particulars of Robert's response, and the article, Kevin would you please take note of this question: starMetro has indicated that they won't go into the mall unless someone pays the $46000 cost; why can't they just as easily drop one route, and put it's $46000 towards the mall, and make the same statement about some other section of town that's a destination a lot less of the time? This mall choice is entirely their own, and in my opinion was designed from the very start to try and extort money out of Governor's Square, who perhaps stand to lose enough business to make them consider paying it. At no time do I think StarMetro has taken the consideration of the ridership into their decisions. Please everyone, don't forget to write members of the TAC (such as Kevin) to let them know your views; and if the TAC recommends the plan, please don't forget to start writing the city commission. I suspect, being ultimately responsible for losses the city may incur due to lawsuits (from injuries), they will be the most sensitive to the idea of putting so many people in danger by making them walk through so many intersections to get to their destinations. thanks. Chip -----Original Message----- From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Easy Talk Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:26 PM To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [tabi] Re: from today's Democrat: Lack of quorum stalls vote on bus changes This is pretty interesting and I would like to thank Kevin and Owen for there efforts. in fact I would like to thank all who have been involved with this issue. During the 20 years I have lived in Tallahassee I think this has been the most involvement I have seen from the blind community. With all that said, I think we need to put our concerns aside and take a look at the bill of goods the city is trying to push on us and personally I don't think safety and our concerns as disabled citizens is going to be enough to stop the change. Now that we have put our concerns aside, let's look at what we are getting. Do you remember the 50 pounds of dog food that are now 44 pounds and the 5 pound bags of sugar that are now 4 pound bags? but the price is the same or more. Well that is the way I see this bill of goods. Less coverage but more frequent service, no safe or weather proof transfer points just to mention a few are what you will get for the same price of the current service. How many of you will ride the new bus system in weather like we had last Thursday or walk a mile in 100 degree weather? Star Metro is selling the plan based on more frequent buses and longer hours of service and they admit the coverage area is less. More frequent bus service isn't going to benefit people who can't get to the bus in the first place. Star Metro might be able to show where extended hours benefit some people but just to give an example of how this is a bunch of bunk, let me tell you how it works on my route. During the week days I could catch a buss about every 15 or 20 minutes to Wal-Mart or target but not at all during evenings or weekends. Most people work during the week and most likely won't be going to Wal-Mart or target unless they are state workers!!smile. So my question is are we getting any benefit from this proposed bill of goods and have we let our concerns become our main objection to the plan. If you notice in the article, Sam Scheib says As for a route into Governor's Square mall, Scheib said it would cost > $46,000 per > year. He said the plan must remain "cost neutral." > "If we can get Governor's Square mall to pay for it, then we can do it," this basically tells me the city had said we could do this as long as It doesn't cost more than the current budget. We all know government doesn't provide increased service with out it costing more. > I think the advisory board should ask Star Metro If the plan is implemented and is a failure, how long do we have to put up with it and is there a plan in place to go back to the old system. I also think the plan is not ready to be implemented based on the current proposals. I am not saying it is impossible but needs more work and commitment from the city and taltran and should be delayed until all problems are addressed and ready to implement with the roll out as apposed to making promises that may never come to light. Kevin, please feel free to bring my concerns to the TAC board. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 1:53 PM Subject: [tabi] from today's Democrat: Lack of quorum stalls vote on bus changes > January 22, 2010 > > Lack of quorum stalls vote on bus changes By TaMaryn Waters DEMOCRAT > STAFF WRITER > > The city of Tallahassee's Transit Advisory Committee, a > citizen-advisory board, couldn't vote on StarMetro's proposed Nova > 2010 plan Thursday night since it didn't have a quorum. > A special meeting is now set for Thursday so the committee can vote on > whether to support the plan, which includes changes in how the city's > bus system operates. StarMetro planners will use the vote as a guide > for finishing a draft report and map, which has had eight revisions > since August. It's slated to go before the City Commission in March. > During Thursday's meeting, several concerns were brought up by > committee members and riders. Those include safety, particularly when > crossing busy intersections, the elimination of a route into > Governor's Square mall and a need for more audible signals. > "The safety concerns are riding over everything," Kevin Davis, a > committee member and StarMetro rider, said. > Davis said he supports some of the proposals, but he said the safety > concerns are "overwhelming" compared to the plan's benefits. > Owen McCaul, a bus rider, agreed, especially since the new plan has 39 > transfer points but only two audible signals, which he says are > helpful for people with disabilities. > "I really feel like they are not giving adequate attention to the > safety concerns," > McCaul said. > Sam Scheib, a senior StarMetro planner, said the plan, which is > designed to decentralize the bus system, would create bus-transfer > spots across town rather than run all routes through the C.K. Steele > Plaza. It would increase the number of buses coming to a bus stop > during peak hours, and it would reduce routes in some areas. > He said planners are looking into safety and logistical issues. The > draft has been changed several times as a result of input from riders. > For example, service to Trojan Trail was added instead of backtracking > on Conner Boulevard, and a "loop route" was divided into two different > routes in an effort to increase connectivity between the south side > and Lake Jackson areas. > Some riders were worried about the lack of sidewalks at some of > transfer points. > Scheib said the city is working on that, although he couldn't > guarantee they'd be complete by nova2010's target launch in December. > As for a route into Governor's Square mall, Scheib said it would cost > $46,000 per year. He said the plan must remain "cost neutral." > "If we can get Governor's Square mall to pay for it, then we can do it," > he said. > Or, Scheib said, some other service will be affected. > Check out the TABI resource web page at > http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI > and please make suggestions for new material. > > > > if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org > web interface, or by sending an email to the address > tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject. Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI and please make suggestions for new material. if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject. Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI and please make suggestions for new material. if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.