[tabi] Re: Online Courses

  • From: "Lynn Evans" <evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 14:32:31 -0400

We had a short discussion a good wile back on the BARD Talk mailing list on how 
to download and transfer books. We had people asking us to tell them the 
keystrokes they would need to perform these tasks. Someone on the list figured 
out it would take something like 65 keystrokes to accomplish this.

 

Would not it be better to teach people the method and reasons so the person 
could transfer the info from one operating system to another?  Give general 
directions like open the browser to the website, log in, type your search query 
in to the search field or locate your book. This way no matter what website you 
are on the procedures are the same? 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Charles Atkins 
  To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 12:11 AM
  Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


  Excellent points Chip!

  Suggestion:

  Perhaps we should convey these thoughts to those in the field of education 
concerned about our struggle for equality as blind citizens of this great 
country?

  Maybe everybody should send this string to one very very close friend, 
instructor,and various other important ongoing contacts in our lives?

  Any other such thoughts anyone?


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Allison and Chip Orange 
    To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
    Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 11:01 PM
    Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


    I think I finally understand Charles' point: we should have an alternate 
way of taking remote classes which doesn't require so much technical 
sophistication.

    I agree; how about simply having the audio from the classes piped into 
phone line number (a conference call line) where students could call and 
listen?  live or to recordings?

    I did that once at work with a company who knew their remote seminar 
software wasn't accessible, so they made the audio of live classes available on 
a conference call line.

    I don't know what else to say: remote learning is really hard to do.  maybe 
you could get them to do the hadley approach where they mailed the students all 
the needed materials.

    But even for the technically sophisticates, if you're blind, I think there 
will be many remote learning situations which won't work.  Not until we get all 
computer professionals on board with the technical points behind accessibility, 
and all business people get the idea that the ADA applies to everything public 
on the web (and it looks to me that the legal interpretation is moving in that 
direction).

    Chip





----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Governor Staten
    Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 9:04 PM
    To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


    for those who can't learn it, we can help you. How will you know if you 
don't receive proper instruction on it? It's like having the race rigged 
against you before you even run out of the blocks. Speech recognition might 
offer you hope too.

    On 6/25/2011 7:29 PM, Charles Atkins wrote: 
      I love the computer and what it stands for, great tool!  The best.  Had 
it come as an organ in our bodies, we'd all get it!  Teachers can tell some 
students a million times through an entire life time, and yet, many many many 
still won't get it by default gentlemen and others!  They are not stupid!  It 
is just not what they are cut out for!

      Technology is just you guys forte and thank God there are some of you 
around, usually to tell the others what to do!  Technology is here, I'm sure to 
stay, as it should, but, I pray, someday, the computer evolves and become 
automatic (every single function).


      Thanks for listening!


        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Allison and Chip Orange 
        To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 7:03 PM
        Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


        this is a very very good point Governor!

        I've seen some assistive technology instructors simply giving the 
student keystrokes to memorize, with no explanation as to which ones were a 
screen reader command, and which (such as windows-M or even tabbing between 
controls of a dialog) were windows commands, and so would work for sighted 
people or with another screen reader.

        Place such students in a slightly different environment (say with 
another screen reader), and they have no idea what they can and can't use.

        Chip




------------------------------------------------------------------------
        From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Governor Staten
        Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 2:47 PM
        To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


        There is a deeper problem here too. When you teach a person how to use 
a screen reader and not the operating system, Windows for example, you're 
headed for trouble. They rely on that screen reader to do everything for them. 
Learn Windows first, and then, learn screen reader commands on top of that. 
What makes something accessible? It could be that you might not know what you 
need to know to use the site, or it could truly be inaccessible. Which scenario 
are we talking about here?

        On 6/25/2011 12:44 PM, Charles Atkins wrote: 
          I know Hadley is cool; I had classes with them before!

          I'm more worried that, more than should have to, students that are 
visually impaired are not, independently, sailing and are needing outside 
assistance far too often and instructors are being permitted to feel 
comfortable with having them do it.




            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Lynn Evans 
            To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 12:33 PM
            Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


            It is hard to say Charles 
            The classes over the internet would be 100% accessible.  
            The Excel class They mailed me the workbook and I used my CCTV and 
emailed them my test. I thought it was quite accessible. 
            The coarse on the Old Testament was on audio tape and I emailed 
them the test. 

            Hadley is the school for the blind so it has to be accessible. 

              ----- Original Message ----- 
              From: Charles Atkins 
              To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
              Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2011 8:38 AM
              Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


              But how would you score Lynn?

              And:

              Thanks!


                ----- Original Message ----- 
                From: Lynn Evans 
                To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:24 PM
                Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


                Let's not forget

                The Hadley school has computer classes and they are free. 

                I beta tested an Excel coarse a few years ago and learned a 
lot. 

                coarse listings at:
                http://www.hadley.edu/2_g_CourseCatalog.asp

                  ----- Original Message ----- 
                  From: Charles Atkins 
                  To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                  Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 4:21 PM
                  Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


                  To add:

                  Some people can't really get the "technical" theory together 
but, need the computer just as much as the rest of the world does.  For them, a 
series of nice recordings of skilled users of Jaws and other speech and audible 
program, succeeding and sort of describing as they are going along so, would, I 
believe, be an enormous help.

                  A very thoughtful world would realize that by default, many, 
won't be able to be adept at using computers, just as, many, will!

                  Everybody can breathe and eat and such, but, everybody can't 
perform all skills with an equal degree of proficiency.

                  I've known many people with all of their vision, and other 
faculties, but, couldn't even, drive a car, nor, swim and more!




                    ----- Original Message ----- 
                    From: Tinetta Cooper 
                    To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                    Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 12:25 PM
                    Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


                    I would score accessibility as an 8.  Are you doing a 
survey?

                      ----- Original Message ----- 
                      From: Charles Atkins 
                      To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                      Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:47 AM
                      Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


                      Are you prepared to say, then:  From 1 to 10, fairly 
accessible scores a

                      What?

                      Thanks!


                        ----- Original Message ----- 
                        From: Tinetta Cooper 
                        To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                        Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 10:11 AM
                        Subject: [tabi] Re: Online Courses


                        Charles, 
                        I have taken online courses at TCC, and will be taking 
another in the fall.
                        Once you learn to navigate the Blackboard web page, it 
is fairly accessible.  Blackboard is the main page for most colleges and 
universities.  Course work may involve other applications, such as Excel, Word, 
Access, and PowerPoint.  While these programs are not as accessible, 
instructors are very helpful in making materials easier to use.  I even had 
communication with a blind professor at FSU who consulted with one of my 
professors.  This was regarding an online course in macroeconomics.
                        I hope this information is helpful.

                        Tinetta
                          ----- Original Message ----- 
                          From: Charles Atkins 
                          To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
                          Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:13 PM
                          Subject: [tabi] Online Courses


                          Anyone taking online courses in our group?

                          Are you getting the job done independently?

                          Has any leaders of the blind made a list of schools 
and universities which are accessible and, not accessible?

                          Is it a website?

                          Thanks!

                          Charles Atkins


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