[tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan

  • From: "Lynn Evans" <evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:38:41 -0400

Robert this sounds like you are giving up even before you get started.
Mr. Scheib rides the bus to work too.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Easy Talk" <easytalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan


Well Lynn, all I can say is good luck especially when Mr. Scheib says something like "it's about mobility not accessibility" I guess each person will have to fight there own battle for service. What I can't understand about the first map is how are people going to get to the bus from there homes and that doesn't have anything to do with being disabled. I don't need to go from store to store, I need to get from home to the store or home to work. No matter how good a bus system is, if you can't get to it it is useless.

Robert

when
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Evans" <evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:12 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan


Chip:

Yes Robert indeed makes some good points and this is what Star Metro needs to hear.


But Star Metro is not yet done with the plan. Star Metro is designing the plan. That is why they are having the meetings. I have looked at the silly map of what they have so far.

It is in no way a done deal.

My friend has talked with Mr. Scheib today by phone about people living at Miccosukee hills not being able to walk down to the street to meet the bus. We are going to keep telling him until he gets tired of hearing us.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison and Chip Orange" <acorange@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:06 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan


Hi Lynn,

Robert's point, and it's a good one, is that any blind person living more than 3/4 mile from these new routes isn't elligible for dial-a-ride service. since the routes aren't going into the neighborhoods as they did before, this will leave some people without dial-a-ride service, unless the city or someone chooses to carry the cost of their ridership anyway.

there's no need to "slow down and gather our thoughts" on this point, it's an important one; we should ask StarMetro how this situation will be handled? will there be people who once qualified for dial-a-ride service, who under the new plan, will be denied service because of a change in bus routes.

thanks.

Chip


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Evans" <evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:03 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan


I think we need to slow down and gather our thoughts here. Star Metro is asking for rider input after all. They are not shoving this down our throats.

No one is going to walk a mile for a camel or a bus stop.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Orange" <Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 12:14 PM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan


One more point for discussions with StarMetro and dial-a-ride:

not only will people not walk a mile, and blind pedestrians will have a lot of trouble (often), navigating sufficiently well to walk this mile, but very often other illnesses are concomitant with blindness (diabetes for example), and they would prohibit many blind people from physically
being able to walk this mile.

Chip





------------------------------

Chip Orange
Database Administrator
Florida Public Service Commission

Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(850) 413-6314

(Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service Commission.)


-----Original Message-----
From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Easy Talk
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 12:05 PM
To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan

Federal guide lines say they only have to service people 3
quarters of a
mile from the fixed route system and this new system will
certainly reduce
the current coverage area.  Considering the status of the non
sponsored
trips situation, this is going to cause a hardship on some
people.  I really
don't think that people are going to walk a mile to catch the
bus before
they go to work and then walk it again after they get off.
The city is
going to have to come up with some kind of feeder system to
the main routes.
I did notice there is still some neighborhood service but it
is mainly on
the south side of town.  Most of the other descriptions were
pretty vague so
it is still hard to figure out how you would make connections
with other
routs.

Robert

----- Original Message ----- From: "Blackjack" <misterblackjack2@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:23 AM
Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan


>I think dial a ride will still have to pick you up. This is
for people with
> disabilities. So the ADA will kick in. The only problem is
reasonable
> accommodations. If we could get rid of that word
reasonable! Or at least
> define it in plain language what they mean by reasonable.
Like I say Dial
> a
> Ride I think will have to pick you up as long as it is with in the
> coverage
> area they work. For example they would not have to go to
Quincy to pick
> you
> up but if it was in Tallahassee area that they covered they
would have to
> pick you up at your door and drop you off at the building
you was going
> to.
> This is what Dial A Ride was designed for to get people
with disabilities
> to
> doctors and work and back. Then came the extras that has
been added on.
> Just
> my thought on it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Blackjack
> misterblackjack2@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
> Of Chip Orange
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:04 AM
> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan
>
> Maybe though Dial-a-ride will still do it (pick us up),
even though not
> required to.  we haven't heard anything about that have we?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Chip Orange
> Database Administrator
> Florida Public Service Commission
>
> Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (850) 413-6314
>
> (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service > Commission.)
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Easy Talk
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 AM
> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan
>
>
> This new system will pretty much make most of us home bound since
> federal law says Pari Transit only has to go 3 quarters of
a mile out of
> the
> fixed route system and from what I can tell and is clearly
stated in the
> plan busses will no longer go in to neighbor hoods.  You
can run buses up
> and down major roads in Tallahassee all you want but it
looks like they
> will
> be empty since people can't get to them.
>
> If it rains, the city might as well shut down the buses.  Not many
> people are going to walk a mile or 2 to catch the bus and
dial a ride will
> no longer be required to pick you up.
>
> Robert
> ----- Original Message ----- >
> From: Chip Orange <mailto:Corange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:53 PM
> Subject: [tabi] Re: Nova 2010 Plan
>
> Hi William and all,
>
> thank you for the posting.
>
> I'd like you to know I've been speaking with another blind
> individual, who is neither associated with TABI or TCB, so
most of us are
> unlikely to know what he knows and vice versa.
>
> He in turn has been speaking with Sam, and has mentioned to
> him that the new routes as planned, do not go directly up
to the malls
> (such
> as Governor's Square), but only approach a near-by street corner (I
> believe
> he said the Parkway and Park Avenue for instance).
>
> This would mean quite a walk for someone going to Gov
> Square, and even worse, part of it would have to be across
the parking lot
> without any landmarks.
>
> He has also mentioned that several routes would require
> transferring by walking across a difficult to cross street such as
> ThomasVille Road or Capitol Circle, in order to achieve
certain routings.
>
> In general, he believes Star Metro has made these decisions
> without considering the difficulty a blind pedestrian would face in
> following the plan.
>
> I don't know if his understanding is correct, and even if
> the current plan is still this way, but I thought I'd point
it out for
> those
> who are interested as an item I would judge to be of importance.
>
> hth,
>
> Chip
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Chip Orange
> Database Administrator
> Florida Public Service Commission
>
> Chip.Orange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (850) 413-6314
>
> (Any opinions expressed are solely those of the author and
> do not necessarily reflect those of the Florida Public Service
> Commission.)
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:tabi-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of blindwilly
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:40 PM
> To: tabi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [tabi] Nova 2010 Plan
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> The following is an on going discussion I have been
> having with Sam Scheiv of Star Metro.   In fact here is his
first message,
> back to me.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Mr. Benjamin:
>
>
>
> It was nice speaking to you yesterday.  Please find
> attached the document describing the Nova 2010 project.
Below I have
> written descriptions of each route
>
> as they are now.  I have not included every turn or
> small street, but enough to understand the general
direction.  These
> routes
> are still in flux.  In
>
> fact I just made a change this morning.  So this is
> not final.  We are taking suggestions from the public and
incorporating
> them
> into the plan.  That means
>
> we need to know what people DO like as much as what
> people don't like.  I hope you find this interesting and I
appreciate you
> calling.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Samuel L. Scheib
>
> Senior Planner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nova 2010 Overview
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For many years transit concentrated in downtown
> Tallahassee where shoppers, moviegoers, employees, and
diners invariably
> traveled.  Over the ensuing decades, the downtown share of
the city's
> employment decreased as shopping centers, restaurants,
movie theaters, and
> even government jobs relocated to the periphery (Tax World,
Koger Center,
> CCOC, etc.).
>
>
>
> The practice of transit is changing, and a growing
> number of agencies have found serving multiple destinations has > been
> tremendously successful, starting with West Coast transit
properties in
> Portland, Oregon, and San Diego, California and then
spreading to places
> like Colorado Springs and Madison, Wisconsin, a state
capital with a large
> university presence like our own.  In Florida, Pinellas and Broward
> Counties
> have similarly restructured their systems.
>
>
>
> Concurrent with the 2005 StarMetro Renaissance Plan,
> the 2005 Transit Development Plan, the November 2008 City
Commission
> Target
> Issue Meeting and the City Manager's 2009 Resolutions,
StarMetro has taken
> preliminary steps to create a decentralized route structure
plan for the
> City of Tallahassee.  Once implemented, the plan, known as
Nova 2010,
> would
> distribute transit services mostly along major roadways in
Tallahassee;
> several routes will not serve downtown at all.  By not
sending every route
> to C.K. Steele Plaza, passengers would experience greater
frequency of
> service and a system that more closely resembles
contemporary vehicular
> travel patterns.
>
>
>
> In developing the draft plan, there were several
> assumptions about conditions in Tallahassee.  First, the
system would,
> like
> the present one, serve the city of Tallahassee with the few
exceptions
> currently in place, such as Bradfordville on the 80x.
Second, we would
> work
> to use, to the best extent possible, existing facilities.
We have Steele
> Plaza and approximately 105 bus shelters, and have adapted
a draft plan to
> use these resources as a starting point on implementation
day.   Expanding
> with additional facilities would be added as the plan gains
popularity, as
> needed and as fiscally feasible.  Lastly, we assumed two lanes on
> Tennessee
> Street between Monroe and Ocala would be converted to
transit-only use, as
> is currently recommended in a study by Genesis Group.
Beyond that, our
> goal
> was to use similar existing resources-the number of buses
and drivers, the
> funding level-all would remain as close as possible to
current levels.
> The
> above is based on our cursory draft plan.  This draft plan
is subject to
> changes based minimally on a full system analysis, review
of alternatives,
> considerable public involvement, a thorough origin and
destination study
> and
> Commission approval.
>
>
>
> We focused our analysis on employment density, as
> the planning literature consistently points to employment
density being
> better at generating transit trips than population density;
although
> having
> high densities of both is best.  Since employment densities
are highest on
> major roadways, we assigned routes to these roads while trying to
> approximate a grid network as seen on the attached map.
>
>
>
> Nova 2010 is intended to accomplish several things:
>
>
>
> q       Reduce Downtown Trips: The most common
> customer complaint is that all the buses go downtown.  At a recent
> listening
> session, a customer lamented the only way to get from one
section of
> Orange
> Avenue to another was to first go to Steele Plaza at the corner of
> Tennessee
> and Adams Streets.  In order to mimic contemporary travel
patters (i.e. to
> go to jobs on the periphery) passengers often must make the
V-shaped trip
> of
> going downtown first and then back out again to the customers final
> destination.
>
> q       Reduce Redundancy: The current hub and spoke
> system requires all buses to meet at the same time at the
central hub.
> Since
> C.K. Steele Plaza is located along a major arterial (W.
Tennessee Street,
> near the intersection with Monroe Street), every bus must
travel along
> this
> corridor at the same time in order for passengers to make
their transfers.
> This results in two or more buses arriving and leaving from
the plaza in
> tandem to travel along the same corridor for a significant
distance,
> passing
> the same stops. With the concept Nova 2010 plan, the
importance of C.K.
> Steele Plaza is downplayed as buses operate independent of
each other.
> This
> allows for one bus to cover an entire corridor, instead of
five buses
> covering the same corridor, as is the case of W. Tennessee Street.
>
> q       Increase On-Time Performance: Another
> complaint staff receives is buses run behind schedule. This
is primarily
> due
> to two reasons - buses traveling at lower speeds in
neighborhoods, and
> routes being dependent on each other for transfers (i.e. if
one arrives
> late, the other buses are held for transferring patrons).
Under Nova 2010,
> buses will remain on the major roads allowing for higher
travel speeds as
> applicable. In addition, the routes operate independent of
each other.
> This
> means if one arrives late, it does not affect the operation
of the other
> routes. Patrons are would be accommodated better with Nova
2010 with
> higher
> service frequency leading to shorter wait times (10 to 30
minutes during
> peak hours verses up to an hour with the current system).
>
> q       Increased Ridership/Decreased Carbon
> Footprint:  StarMetro expects Nova 2010 to make transit
significantly more
> attractive to a much broader part of the community, and each
> single-occupancy-vehicle driver that shifts to transit
represents reduced
> carbon emissions, cleaner air, reduced congestion, less
road maintenance,
> etc.
>
> q       Reduce travel time for patrons using
> transit: Instead of going in and out of neighborhoods, the
Nova 2010 plan
> would have more direct service to major employment and
shopping/recreation
> centers.
>
> q       Increase frequency: Buses will arrive more
> often giving our customers more options for using transit
service with
> greater convenience.
>
> q       Increased Opportunities for Regional Travel:
> With few exceptions (80X, Route 17, and Route 21), there are no
> opportunities for regional travel in the current system. By
decentralizing
> the system, independent cross-town routes along major
corridors create the
> opportunities for regional expansion.
>
>
>
> While there are many distinct advantages in addition
> to the aforementioned ones of the Nova 2010 concept plan,
there are a few
> perceived disadvantages, which have proven to be advantages
across the
> country:
>
>
>
> q       Routes would no longer circulate within
> neighborhoods. This will, however, allow StarMetro to serve a > larger
> population by providing higher frequency and better service
to the most
> popular destinations.
>
> q       Related to the above, walking distances to
> StarStops are anticipated to increase. On the other hand,
this will lead
> to
> fewer stops, increased mobility, a more pleasurable riding
experience and
> a
> healthier community.
>
>
>
> The benefits, however, would far outweigh the few
> discrete disadvantages, which are better communicated in a
longer visual
> presentation.  StarMetro would have a more dependable
system going where
> our
> patrons want to go doing so in a timely, efficient fashion.
>
>
>
>
>
> After I got this message, as per Sila requested, I
> asked for a discription of the routes for the eleven bus
routes, and they
> are as follows..
>
>
>
>
>
> US 90 (1), 20 minutes: Fallschase, W US 90, S
> Appleyard, W Pensacola, N Blountstown, E US 90
>
>
>
> US 90 (2), 20 minutes: Fallschase, W US 90, N
> Capital Circle, loop through Commonwealth, S Capital Circle, E US > 90
>
>
>
> Orange, 15 minutes:  Loop through Paul Dirac, W
> Roberts, S Eisenhower, E Lake Jackson/Orange Ave, S Capital
Circle, loop
> through Capital Circle Office Center
>
>
>
> East, 15 minutes.  Village Square, Capital Circle,
> Southwood/Capital Circle Office Center
>
>
>
> Southside, 15 minutes: Ross Road, N Shelfer, N
> Crawfordville, Gaile Ave, N Monroe Street, Steele Plaza
>
>
>
> Frenchtown/Bond, 15 minutes: Orange, Saxon,
> Wahnish/Macomb/Old Bainbridge, Volusia, Alabama to Preston
Loop, and back.
>
>
>
> Pensalachee, 20 minutes:  Pensacola, Gaines,
> Lafayette, Apalachee Parkway
>
>
>
> Hospitals, 30 minutes:  Woodland, Tuscan, Sunnyside,
> N. Ridge, E Springsax, E Bragg, E Paul Dirac, N Jim Lee, N
Magnolia, E
> Miccosukee, Capital Medical,
>
> Bufford, NE Centerville, SE Fleischmann, W
> Misscosukee
>
>
>
> West Loop, 30 minutes (both directions): N Monroe,
> SW Fred George, S Mission, S Appleyard, E Jackson Bluff, N
Woodward, E St.
> Augustine, through downtown
>
> to Monroe
>
>
>
> NE to Innovation:  N Pottsdamer, E Iamonia, N Lake
> Jackson, E Gaines, Gadsden, Thomasville
>
>
>
> North Mover, 30 minutes: Commonwealth, Hartsfield,
> Pullen, Allen, Henderson, Meridian, Bradford/Betton
>
>
>
> CommonWalmart, 30 minutes: Commonwealth, Tharpe,
> MLK/Duval/Bronough, Park, Gov. Square Blvd, Park Conner
Blvd, Walmart.
>
>
>
>
>
> It has been that discriptions brings up more
> questions than answere, so here it is to work with.\
>
>
>
>
>
> William benjamin
>
> William Benjamin, Piano Tuner Extraordinaire.
> The tuner alone preserves the tone.
>
>
>
> Check out the TABI resource web page at
> http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
> and please make suggestions for new material.
>
>
>
> if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the
freelists.org web
> interface, or by sending an email to the address
> tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in
the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at
http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the
freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the
address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
"unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject.

Check out the TABI resource web page at http://acorange.home.comcast.net/TABI
and please make suggestions for new material.



if you'd like to unsubscribe you can do so through the freelists.org web interface, or by 
sending an email to the address tabi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word 
"unsubscribe" in the subject.

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