Fw: [skype-english] Skype beta 1.4 released, supposed to have accessibility improvements, but does it?
- From: "Vy Pham" <thaovyngu@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <smcc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Le Dan Bach Viet" <bachviet58@xxxxxxxxx>, <tangtanquoc@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:16:57 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@xxxxxxxx>
To: <skype-english@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [skype-english] Skype beta 1.4 released, supposed to have
accessibility improvements, but does it?
OK, I have rather a lot of things to say here...
I'm writing in response to the below-quoted message sent to the
Skype-English mailing list, but I'm also sending these comments to
Skype, the company.
First, you don't have to go to a strange site to get the beta.
There's now a Skype beta posted on the main Skype web site.
Next, a warning to all who are considering upgrading from anything
1.2.0.48 or older: Though sufficient information exists to support
some of the features lost between 1.2 and 1.3, there are still
problems, and we're not done scripting for the new versions yet.
Therefore, if you upgrade past 1.2, you will lose SkypeWatch
functionality and may lose the "New Chat" notification when a new chat
line comes in. These will come back in time, and we have proof that
Skype is working to help make this possible.
The call list is not back, and it will not come back, I'm told,
because it was causing various bugs and sluggishnesses. The MSAA
support mentioned in the quoted message below, which Skype is in fact
adding, is meant to replace it. The MSAA support, when completed,
will allow us JAWS scripters to give you a pop-up list of contacts if
you like and, hopefully, let you call a contact from that list. Alas,
though, the MSAA support is not complete enough yet, as I will explain
shortly.
The below message says the new beta adds a feature allowing you to
choose whether to show offline contacts. In fact, this is an old
feature, existing in Skype versions as far back as I can remember,
certainly back past 1.1.0.79.
About JAWS saying "0 items" for the contact list, Window-Eyes not
calling it a list, etc.: Yes, Skype has started implementing MSAA
support in the contact list; but they're not done yet. I've been
routinely alerting them to the remaining issues of which I am aware.
Some of these issues are listed below:
1. JAWS users who have JAWS load automatically at startup can get
Range Check errors in the contact list by typing a double
JAWSKey+UpArrow, a Control+LeftArrow, and possibly other commands. If
you load JAWS manually and not as a service, this will not happen.
The Range Check errors are harmless besides causing several seconds'
delay. The error is preceeded by an error chord and a delay of maybe
seven seconds. If you get an error chord after one of the above
commands, you can press the space bar once to close the error box
before JAWS manages to announce it, and thus avoid the delay.
2. Although MSAA reports focus on the focused contact list item by
setting the State_System_Focused flag, it does not indicate focus
properly when a screen reader calls the AccFocus method; and it may
not generate the proper events on focus change, though I have not
managed sufficient testing of this theory to prove or disprove it.
For the not-so-technically inclined, this means various portions of
"normal" MSAA behavior for a list are not implemented yet, and this is
probably why Window-Eyes and JAWS don't recognize the contact list as
a list yet. I continue to work with the Skype developers to fix this.
3. The MSAA name for each list item is the Skype ID of the contact
rather than the contact's displayed name. If this isn't fixed before
Window-Eyes and JAWS start calling this a list, we'll start hearing
Skype IDs in place of displayed names. This would be confusing
because the list is alphabetized by displayed name, so the order of
list items might at first eem random. Keep in mind, though, this
issue will not appear for anyone yet because screen readers aren't
calling this a list yet.
Now for some good news: Whenever the MSAA support is completed, the
MSAA information will contain everything that appears in contact-list
tool tips, which means we should no longer have to rely on tool tip
tracking to figure out who's online, away, not available, etc. Also,
whenever MSAA support is completed, screen reader users should not
have to play with highlight color settings when Skype versions change
the screen colors, because MSAA should provide enough information to
let screen readers follow the highlight bar regardless of its color.
A few more miscellaneous tips:
If, in the contact list, you discover that JAWS keeps announcing the
top line as you try to arrow through contacts, tap the Alt key twice.
This activates and deactivates the menu bar once. Why this helps, I
may never know; but at least for me, it does.
The Start tab is gone, as I've said in previous messages. It is
replaced by two panels near the bottom of the screen: one for missed
events and one for Skype services. You can click on the Skype
services part to launch your browser to the Skype sign-in page where
you can review your account, buy or extend services, etc. If you see
in the events panel something like, "3 new events," click on that line
and then browse up and down with the JAWS cursor to find out what
happened. As before in the Start tab, you can left or right-click
contact names in this expanded event list to call people, display
their call info, start chats, launch authorization windows, etc.
If you use the JAWS scripts, ctrl+shift+numbers will still work to
jumpt to specific tabs, but the numbers changed because the Start tab
is gone. The Contacts tab is now ctrl+shift+1.
That's all I can think of right now. I'm sure I'm missing something
though, so there may be more notes from me later on on this list.
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 07:13:45PM -0400, Aman Singer wrote:
Hi, all.
I just downloaded Skype's first 1.4 beta
http://www.skypejournal.com/blog/archives/2005/08/14_windows_beta.php
According to
http://tinyurl.com/c79m8
This has better accessibility than before in that Skype now uses
MSAA. After having installed this beta, I can see no change in how Skype
handles contacts, at least. Left clicking on a contact does get me into a
listbox, but the listbox has zero items. Reclassing the listbox to a
listview, and trying to make Jaws use Msaa for lists, doesn't seem to make
any difference. Window Eyes doesn't even recognise it as a list, so
doesn't
read the contact names. I'm wondering if any of the folks who developed
the
scripts for Skype are on here and might be able to have a look?
Unfortunately, the call contacts menu isn't back.
BTW, the new skype does have two features which I like. The first,
show offline contacts, is off the view menu. If this is checked, all your
contacts will be shown in the contacts screen. If it isn't, only contacts
which are not offline will be shown. This makes life much easier as you
can
use the jaws cursor and there's no need to guess whether a contact is
offline or not.
Secondly, it has call forwarding. You can forward your skype calls
to your mobile number or any other phone number or skype name. If you're
not
on Skype, your phone will ring and you can answer. Of course, you will pay
the rate as if you had called from your skype account to the number you've
forwarded to.
Aman
Yahoo! Groups Links
--
Doug Lee dgl@xxxxxxxx http://www.dlee.org
BART Group doug@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.bartsite.com
There is more freedom in knowing how to handle pain than in knowing
how to avoid it. (4/29/01)
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Other related posts:
- » Fw: [skype-english] Skype beta 1.4 released, supposed to have accessibility improvements, but does it?
OK, I have rather a lot of things to say here...
I'm writing in response to the below-quoted message sent to the Skype-English mailing list, but I'm also sending these comments to Skype, the company.
First, you don't have to go to a strange site to get the beta. There's now a Skype beta posted on the main Skype web site.
Next, a warning to all who are considering upgrading from anything 1.2.0.48 or older: Though sufficient information exists to support some of the features lost between 1.2 and 1.3, there are still problems, and we're not done scripting for the new versions yet. Therefore, if you upgrade past 1.2, you will lose SkypeWatch functionality and may lose the "New Chat" notification when a new chat line comes in. These will come back in time, and we have proof that Skype is working to help make this possible.
The call list is not back, and it will not come back, I'm told, because it was causing various bugs and sluggishnesses. The MSAA support mentioned in the quoted message below, which Skype is in fact adding, is meant to replace it. The MSAA support, when completed, will allow us JAWS scripters to give you a pop-up list of contacts if you like and, hopefully, let you call a contact from that list. Alas, though, the MSAA support is not complete enough yet, as I will explain shortly.
The below message says the new beta adds a feature allowing you to choose whether to show offline contacts. In fact, this is an old feature, existing in Skype versions as far back as I can remember, certainly back past 1.1.0.79.
About JAWS saying "0 items" for the contact list, Window-Eyes not calling it a list, etc.: Yes, Skype has started implementing MSAA support in the contact list; but they're not done yet. I've been routinely alerting them to the remaining issues of which I am aware. Some of these issues are listed below:
1. JAWS users who have JAWS load automatically at startup can get Range Check errors in the contact list by typing a double JAWSKey+UpArrow, a Control+LeftArrow, and possibly other commands. If you load JAWS manually and not as a service, this will not happen. The Range Check errors are harmless besides causing several seconds' delay. The error is preceeded by an error chord and a delay of maybe seven seconds. If you get an error chord after one of the above commands, you can press the space bar once to close the error box before JAWS manages to announce it, and thus avoid the delay.
2. Although MSAA reports focus on the focused contact list item by setting the State_System_Focused flag, it does not indicate focus properly when a screen reader calls the AccFocus method; and it may not generate the proper events on focus change, though I have not managed sufficient testing of this theory to prove or disprove it. For the not-so-technically inclined, this means various portions of "normal" MSAA behavior for a list are not implemented yet, and this is probably why Window-Eyes and JAWS don't recognize the contact list as a list yet. I continue to work with the Skype developers to fix this.
3. The MSAA name for each list item is the Skype ID of the contact rather than the contact's displayed name. If this isn't fixed before Window-Eyes and JAWS start calling this a list, we'll start hearing Skype IDs in place of displayed names. This would be confusing because the list is alphabetized by displayed name, so the order of list items might at first eem random. Keep in mind, though, this issue will not appear for anyone yet because screen readers aren't calling this a list yet.
Now for some good news: Whenever the MSAA support is completed, the MSAA information will contain everything that appears in contact-list tool tips, which means we should no longer have to rely on tool tip tracking to figure out who's online, away, not available, etc. Also, whenever MSAA support is completed, screen reader users should not have to play with highlight color settings when Skype versions change the screen colors, because MSAA should provide enough information to let screen readers follow the highlight bar regardless of its color.
A few more miscellaneous tips:
If, in the contact list, you discover that JAWS keeps announcing the top line as you try to arrow through contacts, tap the Alt key twice. This activates and deactivates the menu bar once. Why this helps, I may never know; but at least for me, it does.
The Start tab is gone, as I've said in previous messages. It is replaced by two panels near the bottom of the screen: one for missed events and one for Skype services. You can click on the Skype services part to launch your browser to the Skype sign-in page where you can review your account, buy or extend services, etc. If you see in the events panel something like, "3 new events," click on that line and then browse up and down with the JAWS cursor to find out what happened. As before in the Start tab, you can left or right-click contact names in this expanded event list to call people, display their call info, start chats, launch authorization windows, etc.
If you use the JAWS scripts, ctrl+shift+numbers will still work to jumpt to specific tabs, but the numbers changed because the Start tab is gone. The Contacts tab is now ctrl+shift+1.
That's all I can think of right now. I'm sure I'm missing something though, so there may be more notes from me later on on this list.
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 07:13:45PM -0400, Aman Singer wrote:
Hi, all.
I just downloaded Skype's first 1.4 beta
http://www.skypejournal.com/blog/archives/2005/08/14_windows_beta.php
According to
http://tinyurl.com/c79m8
This has better accessibility than before in that Skype now uses
MSAA. After having installed this beta, I can see no change in how Skype
handles contacts, at least. Left clicking on a contact does get me into a
listbox, but the listbox has zero items. Reclassing the listbox to a
listview, and trying to make Jaws use Msaa for lists, doesn't seem to make
any difference. Window Eyes doesn't even recognise it as a list, so doesn't
read the contact names. I'm wondering if any of the folks who developed the
scripts for Skype are on here and might be able to have a look?
Unfortunately, the call contacts menu isn't back.
BTW, the new skype does have two features which I like. The first,
show offline contacts, is off the view menu. If this is checked, all your
contacts will be shown in the contacts screen. If it isn't, only contacts
which are not offline will be shown. This makes life much easier as you can
use the jaws cursor and there's no need to guess whether a contact is
offline or not.
Secondly, it has call forwarding. You can forward your skype calls
to your mobile number or any other phone number or skype name. If you're not
on Skype, your phone will ring and you can answer. Of course, you will pay
the rate as if you had called from your skype account to the number you've
forwarded to.
Aman
Yahoo! Groups Links
-- Doug Lee dgl@xxxxxxxx http://www.dlee.org BART Group doug@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.bartsite.com There is more freedom in knowing how to handle pain than in knowing how to avoid it. (4/29/01)
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/cd_AJB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/EGnolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skype-english/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: skype-english-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
__________ NOD32 1.1207 (20050831) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
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