[sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note

Thanks, George. Rest assured, your description compares as fine artistry to
what I myself could come up with. <grin> Perhaps the blind among us on this
list will combine to create a drawing of what you describe, and you can tell
us how it measures up. How 'bout that?!



-----Original Message-----
From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of George Bell
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 7:19 AM
To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note

Hi Dale,

I'm no musician, but have looked this up to see how they visually
appear, so please don't laugh at my crude description.

If you start with three notes tied on the upper stave, but want the
middle note on the lower stave, the note is simply dragged down to the
lower stave.  The vertical line between the note tie at the top, and
the note itself is simply extended.

The alternative method shown is like adding a middle C where the note
is shown with a short horizontal line through it, except that you add
what I would perhaps call blank short lines under one another going
down, until you reach the point there you want the actual note to be.
I gather this is the preferred method for piano scores. But of course
it causes in increased gap between the top and bottom staves.

I'm sorry if this is a very crude description, but the best I can
think of as a fully sighted person with little practical playing
knowledge other than piano some 40 - 50 years ago.

George.



-----Original Message-----
From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Dale Lieser
Sent: 17 December 2011 22:32
To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note

OK. Thank you, sir.


-----Original Message-----
From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 5:19 PM
To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note

Dale,

According to the text, it is something we can do, but should consult
with a sighted person afterwards. The manual indicates adding all the
notes to the staff with the greatest population, then highlighting the
multiple notes to move to the other staff. Then use the Cross-beaming
(I think it's in the notes menu) to move the selection. Necessary stem
positions and beams are created as needed.

Collisions (at least in Sib 5) may still be an issue if there are
other notes nearby.

Dave Carlson
Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay
Area
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Lieser" <dale.lieser@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 14:08
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note


Dave,

It does help. I had looked through that section of the manual, but
still
wasn't clear on what the resulting notation would look like or, more
to the
point, whether it is something we can accomplish without assistance.

Dale


-----Original Message-----
From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:40 PM
To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note

Dale,

There's some good description in the Sib 5 Reference manual, section
2.5
Beaming. Note that in this manual they are usually referred to as
"Cross-staff beaming" rather than simply as cross-staff notes.

In my further recollection now that I've read the manual, crossing the
staff

from one note to the next without any beam isn't an issue. I think it
can be

enhanced by using a slur or if more appropriate a line to show
connectivity
and encourage the idea that the hands are switching.

In the case where a beam is necessary (eighth, sixteenth, etc) the
beam is
placed on both the up and down stems of the two successive notes,
either
level or slanted depending on how much of a jump there is in the
pitch.

So for example going from the bass staff to the treble staff with two
eighth

notes in succession, you have a normal note head with a stem to its
right,
pointing up ending at a beam toward the right. Then the treble note
stem
connects to that same beam and goes upward to the note head on the
treble
staff, the glob to the right of the stem.

Hope this helps a bit.

Dave Carlson
Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay
Area
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale Lieser" <dale.lieser@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 13:25
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note


Sounds good, Dave. Thanks.

If anyone else has descriptions, too, the more the merrier.

Dale


-----Original Message-----
From: sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:sib-access-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Farfar on Laptop
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:23 PM
To: sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [sib-access] Re: Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note

Dale,

I'm thinking that the stem extends to the other staff, and that
there's
another note head at the other end, on that staff, with any necessary
flags
in-between. Not positive on this, but I'm pretty sure I've seen this
type of

note construction in my past.

Dave Carlson
Sent from my Dell Latitude E6520 using Windows 7, San Francisco Bay
Area
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale Lieser" <dale.lieser@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <sib-access@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 12:59
Subject: [sib-access] Appearance of a Cross-Staff Note


Hello Everyone,


A couple of weeks ago we got into a discussion of Cross-staff notes. I
know
how to create them, but I also would like to know what they look like.
Is it
just that the stem is long enough to stretch into the other staff?



Thanks for taking the time to respond.



Dale





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