Steve, Quote: "...resistance on the IC vendor side..." ??? I guess this story depends on who you ask because I feel a resistance in other areas... I represent an IC vendor. We are about to start releasing AMS models, but we are concerned that our customers are not going to be able to do much with them because there are not too many SI tools out there which could use them. At the same time we keep hearing that IBIS is no good for anything because it can't do this and that... To top this off, the IBIS Open Forum now has the macromodeling proposal on the table which doesn't completely solve the kinds of modeling problems we would like to be able to model with the AMS languages... Hmmm... Arpad =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: steve weir [mailto:weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:40 PM To: Yafei Bi; Muranyi, Arpad; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: package SSN model accuracy requirements Yafei, this is the chicken and egg problem with promoting a new = standard,=20 no matter how good it is, or can be. In order to get end users to pay = for=20 the tools, ( capital and labor ) they need to get models from their IC=20 vendors that use them. But the IC vendors are unlikely to add cost and=20 time to their process to provide those models unless there is a = substantial=20 OEM user base demanding those models. Now, maybe if the tools could=20 guarantee that given a good SPICE netlist that a useful AMS netlist = would=20 be automatically generated that was no slower, and sufficiently = accurate,=20 then we might be able to overcome the resistance at the IC vendor=20 side. But are the tool vendors willing to make such an investment on = their=20 own? Regards, Steve. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu