[SI-LIST] Re: fiber-weave effect alive and well?

In the shameless plug for someone else dept:  Lee's book "Right the 
First Time Volume 2" does do a nice job of demonstrating the difference 
between various weaves including some good cross-section 
microphotographs and TDR plots.  I think it is worth the price of the 
book for that information alone.

Steve
Lee Ritchey wrote:
> The link to the Circuitree web site requires each person to register and
> obtain a password.
>
> It is true that the thinner weaves are the problem.
>
> I cover these weaves and results in Chapter 5 of Volume 2 of my book. 
> There are photos showing  what the weaves look like compared to a 3.5 mil
> trace.  Also show what vias do to very fast signals.
>
> Lee Ritchey
>
>
>   
>> [Original Message]
>> From: QU Perry <Perry.Qu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: si-list <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: 9/14/2007 12:25:54 PM
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: fiber-weave effect alive and well?
>>
>> I would be interested to see a link as well.
>>
>> Jeff's paper on DesignCon2007 is convincing to me that this is something
>> we need to pay attention. Real life design will probably not be as bad
>> as the theoretical estimate since most of the diff pair routing we have
>> on the PCB is not likely to run a long length non-stop in parallel with
>> edge. The "jog" as is called in the paper is very common due to vias etc
>> and pretty random.
>>
>> Also from the data we got from PCB vendor, it appears that thinner
>> dielectric substrate the worse fibre weave effect as the gap between the
>> fiber is larger. Has this been looked at ?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Perry
>>
>>
>>     
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>   
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
>>
>> Perry Qu=20
>>
>> Design & Qualification, Alcatel-Lucent Canada Inc.
>>
>> 600 March Road, Ottawa ON, K2K 2E6, Canada=20
>>
>> DID: 613-7846720  Fax: 613-5993642=20
>>
>> Email: perry.qu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>>
>>
>>     
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>   
>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
>>
>> =20
>>
>>     
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of=20
>>> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx
>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 1:59 PM
>>> To: leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; rdudek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;=20
>>> si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: fiber-weave effect alive and well?
>>> =20
>>> Would you like to share a link?=3D20
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> Aubrey Sparkman=3D20
>>> Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team=3D20 Dell, Inc.=3D20=20
>>> Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx=3D20
>>> (512) 723-3592=3D20
>>> "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and=20
>>> thinking what nobody else has thought." - Jonathan Swift
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>>> [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On Behalf Of Lee Ritchey
>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 11:36 AM
>>> To: Russell S. Dudek Jr.; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: fiber-weave effect alive and well?
>>> =20
>>> We already have a glass weave solution.  Check my column in=20
>>> the April issue of Circuitree magazine.
>>> =20
>>> Lee Ritchey
>>> =20
>>> =20
>>>       
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Russell S. Dudek Jr. <rdudek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Date: 9/12/2007 1:10:28 PM
>>>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: fiber-weave effect alive and well?
>>>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>> =3D20
>>>> I agree, Fiber Weave Effect (FEW) has most certainly been=20
>>>>         
>>> confirmed by
>>> such
>>>       
>>>> research.  However, there is a new change in the wind.  I=20
>>>>         
>>> have the=3D20=20
>>>       
>>>> unique opportunity, as a technical liaison, to enable a=20
>>>>         
>>> technology=3D20=20
>>>       
>>>> that may put
>>>>         
>>> an
>>>       
>>>> end to FWE as a consideration in high-speed designs.  We=20
>>>>         
>>> all know that
>>> =20
>>>       
>>>> the crux of the matter is the glass weave and its effect on=20
>>>>         
>>> localized
>>> Er.
>>>       
>>>> Either get ride of the reinforcement layer completely or more=3D20=20
>>>> challenging change the fundamentals of the glass weave fabrication
>>>>         
>>> process (GWFP).
>>>       
>>>> =3D20
>>>> We have taken the more challenging (and fun) approach and have=20
>>>> rocked=3D20 the fundamentals the GWFP.  I cannot disclose much the=20
>>>> specifics of=3D20 the technology and our partners in such an=20
>>>>         
>>> open forum. =20
>>>       
>>>> However, if=3D20 you are interested learning more feel free=20
>>>>         
>>> to contact=20
>>>       
>>>> me and we can=3D20 get the proper NDAs in place to facilitate=20
>>>>         
>>> such a discussion.
>>>       
>>>> =3D20
>>>> RD
>>>> =3D20
>>>> Russell Dudek
>>>> Technology Specialist
>>>> Compunetics, Inc.
>>>> 700 Seco Road
>>>> Monroeville, PA 15146
>>>> 412-858-6264
>>>> rdudek@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> www.compunetics.com <http://www.compunetics.com/> =3D20
>>>>
>>>> To see where no one notices the contrast of white on white is =
>>>>         
>> an=3D20=20
>>     
>>>> indispensable virtue of infinite potential.
>>>>
>>>> =3D20
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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