[SI-LIST] Re: Where is the Return Current when signal transition from GND reference to POWER reference

No attachment???

Elya

On 3/1/2012 2:12 AM, steve weir wrote:
> Syed, please find attached.
> Regards,
>
>
> Steve.
> On 2/29/2012 9:27 AM, Syed Bokhari wrote:
>> Can you send me these papers?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Syed Bokhari, Ph.D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Fidus Systems Inc.
>>
>> syed.bokhari@xxxxxxxx
>> 900, Morrison Drive
>>
>> Tel: (613) 828 - 0063 x 377
>> Ottawa, Ontario
>>
>> Fax:(613) 828-3113
>> Canada, K2H 8K7
>>
>> www.fidus.ca
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>> Behalf Of Oh, Dan
>> Sent: February-29-12 12:23 PM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where is the Return Current when signal transition 
>> from GND reference to POWER reference
>>
>> Hi Tesla,
>>
>> In addition to Eric's paper, I have also written a paper on this subject and 
>> published in IEEE last year:
>> D. Oh, "Plane bounce in high-speed single-ended signaling systems," 
>> DesignCon 2012.
>> If you have access to DesignCon, I also wrote a paper with little more 
>> details this year:
>> D. Oh, "Plane bounce in high-speed single-ended signaling I/O interfaces," 
>> EPEPS conference 2011.
>> Please let me know if you do not have access for any of these. I can forward 
>> to you.
>>
>> Best,
>> - Dan Oh
>> ___________________________________________
>> Dan (KyungSuk) Oh, Ph.D.
>> Technical Director of Signal and Power Integrity Rambus Inc.
>> (B) 408-462-8363
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>> Behalf Of Bill Martin
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:08 AM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Where is the Return Current when signal transition 
>> from GND reference to POWER reference
>>
>> Tesla,
>>
>> Eric Bogatin has published some analysis on a similar design in his Blog.
>>
>> It was posted Sept 2010 concerning Cross Talk in Differential Channels 
>> (return path discontinuities).
>>
>> Location:   http://bethesignal.net/blog/?m=201009
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bill
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>> Behalf Of Tesla
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:51 AM
>> To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SI-LIST] Where is the Return Current when signal transition from 
>> GND reference to POWER reference
>>
>> Hi, experts
>>
>> I have a question that buffled me a long time.
>>
>> Suppose i have a four layers board. L1:TOP   L2:GND L3:POWER L4:Bottom (GND
>> and POWER are ground plane and Power plane), there are not any connections 
>> between L2:GND and L3:POWER. they are independant planes. there is not even 
>> a capacitor between them.
>> If I have a  200mils signal trace run on L1: TOP, Then it transition to 
>> L4:Bottom layer through a through hole via. The signal trace also run 
>> 200mils on L4:Bottom. I design the Signal trace as 50ohm.
>> Now, if i launch AC signal into  signal trace on L1:Top layer. Would i 
>> mearsure signal between L4:Bottom and L3:POWER at the end of  signal trace.
>> I believed that there is not voltage between the trace and POWER Plane, 
>> because the return current can't find a way to transition  to L3:POWER.
>> But when i simulated the case in HFSS. I get a result that it has 
>> S-parameter like a 400 mils microstrip from DC to 1Ghz.
>> which is correct?
>> Hope such silly question not bother you.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Tesla.
>>
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