All Overshoot (to go past a target) has always meant to me a signal that went past its final value. Undershoot (to reach short of a target) has always meant to me a signal that did not reach its final value in the specified time. Ringing is the phenomenon of taking some time and cycles to reach the final value. And these terms apply to resonant circuits, whether they are LCs or composed of transmission lines. Tom Dagostino Teraspeed(R) Labs 13610 SW Harness Lane Beaverton, OR 97008 503-430-1065 tom@xxxxxxxxxxxxx www.teraspeed.com Teraspeed Consulting Group LLC 121 North River Drive Narragansett, RI 02882 401-284-1827 -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Lee Ritchey Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 3:34 PM To: Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx; art_porter@xxxxxxxxxxx; madhusudhan@xxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Ring back Those are terms that apply to resonant circuits such as LC networks as opposed to transmission lines. > [Original Message] > From: <Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx> > To: <art_porter@xxxxxxxxxxx>; <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <madhusudhan@xxxxxxxxxx>; <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: 5/22/2006 12:34:55 PM > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Ring back > > Doesn't the concepts of over-damped (undershoot), under-damped > (ringback), and critically damped systems apply here? > > > Aubrey Sparkman=20 > Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team > Dell, Inc.=20 > Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx=20 > (512) 723-3592 > > The Greatest Pleasure in Life is Doing what People say can't be done... > > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of art_porter@xxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 11:23 AM > To: leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; madhusudhan@xxxxxxxxxx; > si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Ring back > > I would argue that there is a difference. Undershoot is defined by the = > =3D > IEEE in standard 181-2003 as "3.1.49 undershoot: A waveform aberration = > =3D > within a post-transition aberration region or pre-transition aberration > =3D region that is less than the lower state boundary for the associated = > =3D > state level." In layman's terms, undershoot does not require a preceding > =3D overshoot. Ringback to me, again in simple laymans' terminology, is > the =3D first (or lowest) dip AFTER an initial overshoot. "Ringback" to = > me > =3D implies that there is some resonance, so one would expect to see a = > =3D > damped sinusoid following a transition. > > There is no IEEE standard definition for "Ringback," but I believe it = > =3D > has been defined in some semiconductor manufacturers' data sheets and = > =3D > app notes. =3D20 > > Art Porter > Agilent Technologies =3D20 > > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] > =3D On Behalf Of Lee Ritchey > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 9:02 AM > To: Madhusudhan Kulkarni; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Ring back > > Ringback is just another name for undershoot. I don't know why someone > =3D had to invent another name for something that already had a name. > > When you have undershoot and you use series terminations, the terminator > value it too high or the output impedance of the driver is too high. = > =3D > When you have undershoot and you use parallel terminations, the value of > the terminator is too low. Fix which ever problem you have by changing > the value appropriately. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Madhusudhan Kulkarni <madhusudhan@xxxxxxxxxx> > > To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Date: 5/22/2006 9:28:26 AM > > Subject: [SI-LIST] Ring back > > > > Hi, > > How to solve ringback problem and what is the disadvantages of =3D > ringback > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from si-list: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > > > For help: > > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > > > List technical documents are available at: > > http://www.si-list.org > > > > List archives are viewable at: =3D20 > > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > > or at our remote archives: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > =3D20 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: =3D20 > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > =3D20 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: =20 > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > =20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > List FAQ wiki page is located at: > http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.org > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List FAQ wiki page is located at: http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.org List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu