I am resending my message, as the one sent previously appeared garbled on the copy received by me. Hi Ferhat, Thank you very much for your detailed reply. Regards, Ravinder Server PCB Development Hitachi Global Storage Technologies Email: Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx "Ferhat Yaldiz" <ferhat.yaldiz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 08/11/2008 04:07 AM To <Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> cc <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject [SI-LIST] Re: PCB extractor to obtain S parameters Hi Ravinder, Allegro PCB SI can deal with splits or slot, void problems. Using "shield" and "ANL_MIN_VOID_AREA" Properties, you can see effects because of impedance discontinuity. Shield : (in the stackup editor) If shield option is not checked, Allegro PCB SI accept planes are not ideal or solid and have multiple planes and it forces to find effects plane boundaries. ANL_MIN_VOID_AREA : (minimum void area) For void or slot it is useful. Allegro calculate void effects in power layers via transtion. (Via perforations) You can find "ANL_MIN_VOID_AREA" property in the User Preferences --> Signal Analysis section. Maybe you must play "Geometry Window" and "min coupled length". In my some design, I have to route transmission lines over the voids, slots and near edge of power plane. I saw Impedance changing. For example, In slots or void Allegro add high impedance transmission line according to other transmission lines. In split planes you know adding capacitor where you are crossing the split will give more realistic result. Best Regards, FERHAT YALDIZ HARDWARE DESIGN ENG. TUBITAK-ITI TURKIYE _____ From: Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 8:51 PM To: Ferhat Yaldiz Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: PCB extractor to obtain S parameters Hi Ferhat, It is my understanding that Allegro PCB SI uses the Ground/Power planes specified in the card stackup for signal return, and it assumes them to be ideal planes, ignoring the plane splits and via perforations. If there is a special feature for split plane simulation then will you please elaborate on it. Thanks. Regards, Ravinder Ajmani Server PCB Development Hitachi Global Storage Technologies Email: Ravinder.Ajmani@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx "Ferhat Yaldiz" <ferhat.yaldiz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 08/08/2008 12:06 AM To "'qazi'" <qazi@xxxxxxxxxx>, "'Bill Dempsey'" <bdempsey85@xxxxxxxxx>, <Alexandre.AMEDEO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> cc Subject [SI-LIST] Re: PCB extractor to obtain S parameters Hi Qazi, Allegro PCB SI supports split plane simulation. This is very powerful in high density boards. I compared results critical nets have split planes and have ideal planes. As I know, Hyperlynx thinks signal return path is ideal. (I read it own manual.) Best Regards, FERHAT YALDIZ HARDWARE DESIGN ENG. TUBITAK - ITI TURKIYE -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of qazi Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 2:26 AM To: 'Bill Dempsey'; Alexandre.AMEDEO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: PCB extractor to obtain S parameters I don't think Hyperlynx or Allegro SI can take split paths into consideration. Unless they have, of course made a very recent update that I am not aware of. -Qazi -----Original Message----- From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Dempsey Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:39 PM To: Alexandre.AMEDEO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: PCB extractor to obtain S parameters Be sure to ask your tool vendor if they assume an ideal return path or if they consider defective return paths (plane splits). Not all vendors can do that... The ones I am aware of that have Allegro plug-ins are: Applied Wave Research CST HFSS Others? > -----Original Message----- > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Alexandre.AMEDEO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:24 AM > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [SI-LIST] PCB extractor to obtain S parameters > > Hi all, > > I am looking for all PCB tools who can extract PCB > information from Cadence tools and execute analysis to have S > parameters of, for example, a differential trace. > > Thanks and regards, > > Thales Land & Joint System - Colombes > > Alexandre AMEDEO > Intégrité du Signal > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]De la part de Luong > Hoang Envoyé : jeudi 7 août 2008 00:33 À : > si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Objet : [SI-LIST] Signal Integrity > position at Juniper Networks > > > Hi all we're looking to fill some signal integrity positions > at Juniper Networks (Sunnyvale, CA). > If you're interested, you can contact the recruiter through > his email at > > > > BenW@xxxxxxxxxxx / BenW[at]Juniper.net > > > > Here is a brief description... > > > > System level signal integrity and timing analysis on boards, > packages, ASICs and FPGAs. > > > > - Design timing (setup/hold board timing analysis and clock design). > > - Simulate and measure board level reflection, xtalk, ground > bounce, power/ground noise. > > - Perform simulations for on-chip SI including core noise > modeling, on chip crosstalk, I/O selection, chip pinout > assignment, package selection and pinout assignment. > > - PWB cross-section design/tradeoff, serdes channel analysis. > > - Use lab equipment such as oscilloscopes, Time Domain > Reflectometers, Vector Network Analyzers, Spectrum Analyzers. > Good lab debug skills. > > - Proficient with HSPICE, Allegro, SiSoft, Speed2K, PowerSI, > Ansoft HFSS. > > - Good oral and written communication skills. Team player, > willing to take on a variety of projects, good listening > skills, self motivator. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.net > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from si-list: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field > > or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: > //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list > > For help: > si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field > > > List technical documents are available at: > http://www.si-list.net > > List archives are viewable at: > //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list > or at our remote archives: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages > Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: > http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu -- PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been saved in a permanent database. -- PRIVACY WARNING: For auditing purposes, a copy of this message has been saved in a permanent database. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from si-list: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field or to administer your membership from a web page, go to: //www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list For help: si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field List technical documents are available at: http://www.si-list.net List archives are viewable at: //www.freelists.org/archives/si-list or at our remote archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at: http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu