[SI-LIST] Re: OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
- From: James Freeman <James.Freeman@xxxxxxx>
- To: pchauhan@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:20:31 -0700
Hi Prakash,
Before the Revolutionary war in the thirteen colonies, there was a
program of indentured servitude. A person from Europe who wanted to
migrate to America would indenture themselves(almost slavery) to a rich
colonial in return for a payment of passage on a ship to the colonies.
This practice is now in full-force by Tata, Wipro, and Infosys( who
consume about 96% of the H1-B visas). The beneficiaries are the
well-to-do Indians that own these companies almost in total. The
unfortunate losers are those Indian H1-Bs who are not as lucky as you
and are in limbo to a globalist U.S. company who has led them to believe
that there will be a green card in the future(always just around the
corner) and the native born U.S. engineers who can't find a job.
Thanks
Jim Freeman
Chauhan, Prakash wrote:
>Hi Agathon,
> I am an Indian who used to work for Wipro, in the beautiful city
>of Bangalore and was hired by Dell (in Austin) on an H1B visa, 10 years
>ago. My first response on reading your post was one of dismay (due to
>the insults and negative comments that you hurled at a company that you
>have not worked for and to a country you have not lived in). You have
>dragged in a lot of different suggestions in your post (Indian companies
>are Fraudulent, Indian workers are incompetent or stupid or both, India
>is a place where no American would want to tread, much less work). I
>suppose if venting your rage helps you think more clearly, there would
>still be something positive to take out of this. I tried to come up
>with some reasons why India and the US are good partners and will be for
>a long time to come. I also tried to rebut some of your statements but
>this is not something easily done, when your mind is made.=20
>
>1. The US needs India to stay competitive in Hi-Tech. The US has money
>and Ideas, India has the human resources to allow these ideas to be
>implemented in a cost effective way. India needs investment to bring
>the masses out of poverty and chart their future.
>
>2. The dotcom bust was a far larger cause of job losses and economic
>hardships than H1B visas. In fact the H1B contractors were the first to
>be laid off when the downturn arrived. The H1B program was invaluable
>in resolving the Y2K bug whereby the large firms worldwide could take
>advantage of cheap programmers from India. American firms were able to
>survive the lean times after the dotcom bust better because of cost
>cutting that they could afford to do, thanks to outsourcing. If US IT
>companies stop outsourcing, they might end up in same boat as US
>manufacturing, automotive and agricultural industries (not efficient
>enough to compete in a global market).
>
>3. The Middle class in India will be the same size as the entire US
>population, by 2025. India and China are a huge market opportunity for
>US firms to sell their stuff to (Check out the growth rates for
>Computers, Cell Phones, Cars and other commodities in India). I will
>not be too surprised if a large swath of American companies makes a
>large amount of their revenues by selling to Indian & Chinese consumers
>in the near future.
>
>4. It may be true that there is corruption and class culture in India,
>but things are getting better with increased transparency in government
>and a free and raucous media. No government or system is ideal. You had
>slavery and segregation in the not too distant past in the USA. As for
>corruption and fraudulent behavior: Watergate, Iran Contra affair, Iraq
>war, Enron, Worldcom.. There are plenty of examples where the system
>failed leading to lives and livelihoods lost.
>
>5. We are all human beings, trying to secure the best for ourselves and
>our families and communities. Bad mouthing and scape-goating someone
>else will not solve the problems of this world.
>
>6. To become an Engineer in India, one needs to take an entrance test
>(after high school). Here below is a link to a sample Physics paper
>that you have to solve in 3 hours. I am sure you can convince yourself
>that Indian engineers also know some Physics. That said, I know that
>many Indian Engineers fresh out of school are lacking in real world
>experience and implementation.
>
>
>http://www.iitjee.org/iit-question-papers/iit-jee-2003-main/iit-jee-2003
>-physics-main.html
>
>
>
>Thank You for listening to my rant. I don't expect it to change
>anything.
>
>Regards,
>Prakash
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
>On Behalf Of agathon
>Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:31 AM
>To: Andrew W. Riley III; si-list
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
>
>re: going elsewhere to find information:
>Glad to oblige...
>Google these:
>wipro (h-1b OR h1) fraud
>wipro (h-1b OR h1) fraud -explain -dice -outsourcing -letters
>
>The 2nd one filters out alot of redundant ones, but the 1st one's top
>results are important.
>
>Also...
>
>Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage (Norm Matloff,
>UC
>Davis)
>http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.html
>
>vdare mar-04-03 - Is Outsourcing Trade - Or Dispossession
>http://www.vdare.com/roberts/free_trade_notes.htm (note: I have no
>political associations)
>
>Using L-1 to get around H-1B --BW March 10, 2003 A Visa Loophole as Big
>as
>a Mainframe
>http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_10/b3823111_mz021.htm
>
>Office of Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment
>Practices
>http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/htm/contactus.htm
>
>H-1B Class Action Legal Information
>http://www.geocities.com/h1baction/Law.html
>
>LCA Database Tutorial
>http://www.jobdestruction.com/LCA-Data/Tutorial.htm (main page has a
>signup for the newsletter, very influential)
>
>
>
>
>On 7/5/07, Andrew W. Riley III <drew3rdof3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>>Howdy Steve,
>>
>>Understood, and I actually agree. But how would I know to go there?
>>
>>
>More
>
>
>>than a few times I have thought there needs to be an appropriate way
>>
>>
>to go
>
>
>>OT and still have the possibility of including the invaluable thoughts
>>
>>
>of
>
>
>>anyone on the SI-List.
>>
>>Oh well. I thank each of you for your educational posts.
>>
>>Cheers!
>>Drew
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "steve weir" <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: <drew3rdof3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Cc: <praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx>; <hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:08 AM
>>Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Drew, this is a global technical forum that allows job postings.
>>>Praveen's posts fell easily within those parameters. Agathon's post
>>>
>>>
>was
>
>
>>>out of bounds on several fronts. The internet is filled with
>>>
>>>
>places
>
>
>>>where Agathon's post would be far more appropriate.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>Steve.
>>>Andrew W. Riley III wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hmm,
>>>>
>>>>I believe at the *very* most an "OT" should be prepended to the
>>>>
>>>>
>subject
>
>
>>>>line and Agathon's post is a very relevant albeit noticeably
>>>>
>>>>
>sensitive
>
>
>>>>topic.
>>>>
>>>>Personally, I also believe that I have been able to get back into
>>>>
>>>>
>the
>
>
>>>>career I love because more than a few US companies were tired of
>>>>
>>>>
>paying
>
>
>>>>for a bookmark from outsourcing the layout of their design to other
>>>>countries.
>>>>
>>>>At the risk of being flogged, I would like to hear more.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers!
>>>>Drew
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: <praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>To: <hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Cc: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:52 AM
>>>>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>First of all, I don't think this is a forum where we discuss
>>>>>globalization, its impact, outsourcing or H1/L1 Visa frauds. Those
>>>>>things are heavens apart from the scope of this list. This message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>is
>
>
>>>>>only for the needy and if someone is not implicated, he/she should
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>keep
>>
>>
>>>>>quiet.
>>>>>
>>>>>As the welcome message clearly states, this is a forum to discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>SI
>
>
>>>>>related stuff and may be post SI related job opportunities (that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>too
>
>
>>>>>with utmost caution).
>>>>>
>>>>>Moderator, can you please block these irrelevant messages/senders?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks and regards,
>>>>>Praveen
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>From: agathon [mailto:hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>Sent: Thu 7/5/2007 7:38 AM
>>>>>To: Praveen Srikantaiah (WT01 - TES-Transport Infrastructure)
>>>>>Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This is interesting. Let's assume this job posting is real.
>>>>>
>>>>>After years of displacing U.S. citizens via fraudulent use of H-1B
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>_and_
>>
>>
>>>>>L-1 visas, Wipro has the cajones to post, right in our face, an
>>>>>offer of employment in India. No quantity of rupees could
>>>>>
>>>>>
>compensate.
>
>
>>>>>Now, some obvious questions arise.
>>>>>
>>>>>What U.S. citizen are they expecting to hire? If they don't
>>>>>
>>>>>
>expect
>
>
>>to,
>>
>>
>>>>>as anyone can subscribe to the si-list, then what non-U.S. citizen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>from
>>
>>
>>>>>what country would want such a job location? No, the U.S. - as we
>>>>>know - is a declining place, so suddenly not producing enough
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>engineers
>>
>>
>>>>>and other professionals, it's like the bubonic plague by God, for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>which
>>
>>
>>>>>India and China had to come to the rescue. But, I don't think
>>>>>
>>>>>
>your
>
>
>>>>>typical U.S. citizen engineer would take very well to the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>corruption
>
>
>>>>>over there and stark class society.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, why is Wipro having an issue filling the job with the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>'superior'
>
>
>>>>>non-U.S. citizen worker?
>>>>>
>>>>>Hmmm... possibly is the targeted candidate Indian? Might they be
>>>>>
>>>>>
>in
>
>
>>>>>the U.S.? Are there no direct means within India to find such a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>person?
>>
>>
>>>>>Evidently not. And evidently a shortage exists within Wipro and
>>>>>wherever their tentacles reach. Wait, I thought - as the Indian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>(and
>
>
>>>>>U.S., unfortunately) press trumpet - the Indian engineer is so
>>>>>
>>>>>
>much
>
>
>>>>>better and they produce masses of them? What's the problem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>finding an
>
>
>>>>>Indian engineer who also knows a little physics? Gee whiz. So
>>>>>
>>>>>
>sad.
>
>
>>>>>I've just heard (BBC I think) that U.S. companies are closing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>Indian
>
>
>>>>>operations. And, the Indian edge is decreasing due to costs. So,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>don't
>>
>>
>>>>>offer the weak crap that it's demand that's causing the Wipro
>>>>>
>>>>>
>posting.
>
>
>>>>>Intel is going to Vietnam, instead. Yep, the race to the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>bottom. Even
>>
>>
>>>>>the Indians might actually catch a clue sometime
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>soon. Americans? No;
>>
>>
>>>>>too deep in sleep. I have NEVER met an H-1B/L-1 who could
>>>>>
>>>>>
>contribute
>
>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>>>any SI effort and, at Intel on one occasion, only contributed to
>>>>>negative productivity.
>>>>>
>>>>>More likely, Wipro and the like are starting to retrench and build
>>>>>
>>>>>
>the
>
>
>>>>>home base. Especially since the H-1B cap wasn't raised. The
>>>>>
>>>>>
>rampant
>
>
>>>>>fraud in India has drained off alot of the H-1B slots, leaving
>>>>>
>>>>>
>Wipro
>
>
>>>>>high and dry. Well, waddya know, the law of supply and demand
>>>>>
>>>>>
>does
>
>
>>>>>exist. Just not in the usual way. Yee ha!!
>>>>>
>>>>>"Fraudsters walk away with H1B visas!"
>>>>>http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=3D2421&tstart=3D0
>>>>>"Glen Keiser, Consular Section Chief, US Consulate, Mumbai said,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>"We
>
>
>>>>>have found to our regret that Hyderabad and Bangalore are centres
>>>>>
>>>>>
>of
>
>
>>H1B
>>
>>
>>>>>visa fraud and that it is not difficult to walk into an operation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>and
>
>
>>>>>someone rather forthrightly tell you that they can produce
>>>>>
>>>>>
>anything to
>
>
>>>>>appear to qualify for an H1B visa...". The link at the above link
>>>>>
>>>>>
>has
>
>
>>>>>Indian tv video describing Wipro's Woes.
>>>>>
>>>>>The 5% of their GDP that is tech exports (incl. services) is not
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>growing
>>
>>
>>>>>as in the past and the nervousness doth rear its ugly head. Plus,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>the
>
>
>>>>>only way to exploit the L-1 visa is to have personnel employed at
>>>>>
>>>>>
>a
>
>
>>>>>"home base", ready for transfer to the U.S. - without any
>>>>>
>>>>>
>protections
>
>
>>>>>for U.S. citizens whatsoever (not even any H-1B fig leaf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>protection).
>
>
>>>>>So, this is a rich thought... Like my mom always said, "the truth
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>will
>>
>>
>>>>>out". And it cometh right quick. So I say India should legislate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>a
>
>
>>>>>US-1 visa whereby we foreigners may be imported to save the ship.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>At
>
>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>>>appropriate premium, of course. But, that might have to wait
>>>>>
>>>>>
>until
>
>
>>>>>AFTER our Congress has devolved us further, maybe into 3rd World
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>status.
>>
>>
>>>>>Obviously, since India is apparently incapable of producing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>someone
>
>
>>>>>skilled enough, Wipro is counting on past H-1B exploitation of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>Indians
>
>
>>&
>>
>>
>>>>>Americans having produced someone who can do this work from their
>>>>>
>>>>>
>U.S.
>
>
>>>>>experience _and_ who now wants to work in Bangalore, ready to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>continue
>
>
>>>>>taking work from U.S. citizens, or others, in their own country.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>That
>>
>>
>>>>>takes balls. And a U.S. Congress bought and paid for.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 6/29/07, praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx <
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>>Wipro Technologies' SI group is looking for an SI engineer with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>around
>
>
>>>>>10 years of experience. The job is based out of Bangalore, India.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>Below
>>
>>
>>>>>is the job description. If interested email me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Praveen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Roles & Responsibilities
>>>>>PCB stack-up definition, PCB material selection, and layer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>assignment
>
>
>>as
>>
>>
>>>>>per Signal Integrity / Cross talk requirements.
>>>>>Do pre-layout and post-layout signal Integrity analysis for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>various
>
>
>>>>>boards.
>>>>>Review analysis results and all checks as per guidelines needed by
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>Wipro
>>
>>
>>>>>and client specifications.
>>>>>Review Signal quality measurement results and tune models/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>methodology
>
>
>>>>>accordingly.
>>>>>Develop/Enhance/Update methodology based on advancements in Signal
>>>>>Integrity / Design complexity. Designs will be in various domains
>>>>>
>>>>>
>like
>
>
>>>>>Telecom, Computing, Embedded, Automotive, Consumer Electronics
>>>>>
>>>>>
>etc.
>
>
>>>>>Skills, Job Requirements
>>>>>
>>>>>Hands on experience in execution of high speed signal integrity
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>analysis
>>
>>
>>>>>and cross talk analysis on High frequency boards involving
>>>>>
>>>>>
>different
>
>
>>>>>types of models - IBIS, Spice, SLM/MLM/ICM.
>>>>>
>>>>>Detailed experience with multiple tools like Spectraquest,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>Hyperlynx,
>
>
>>>>>Hspice, ICX etc. required.
>>>>>Experience in doing IBIS model validation, Signal Integrity
>>>>>
>>>>>
>Analysis
>
>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>>>PCI express, XAUI or similar interfaces is a must.
>>>>>Experience in doing multi board simulations is an added advantage.
>>>>>Must have experience in High Speed/ Gigabit speed Signal Quality
>>>>>measurements.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The information contained in this electronic message and any
>>>>>
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>
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>>
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>>>>>should check this email and any attachments for the presence of
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>>
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>>>>>The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>www.wipro.com <http://www.wipro.com/>
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