[SI-LIST] Re: OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
- From: "Chauhan, Prakash" <pchauhan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "si-list" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:39:19 -0400
Hi Agathon,
I am an Indian who used to work for Wipro, in the beautiful city
of Bangalore and was hired by Dell (in Austin) on an H1B visa, 10 years
ago. My first response on reading your post was one of dismay (due to
the insults and negative comments that you hurled at a company that you
have not worked for and to a country you have not lived in). You have
dragged in a lot of different suggestions in your post (Indian companies
are Fraudulent, Indian workers are incompetent or stupid or both, India
is a place where no American would want to tread, much less work). I
suppose if venting your rage helps you think more clearly, there would
still be something positive to take out of this. I tried to come up
with some reasons why India and the US are good partners and will be for
a long time to come. I also tried to rebut some of your statements but
this is not something easily done, when your mind is made.=20
1. The US needs India to stay competitive in Hi-Tech. The US has money
and Ideas, India has the human resources to allow these ideas to be
implemented in a cost effective way. India needs investment to bring
the masses out of poverty and chart their future.
2. The dotcom bust was a far larger cause of job losses and economic
hardships than H1B visas. In fact the H1B contractors were the first to
be laid off when the downturn arrived. The H1B program was invaluable
in resolving the Y2K bug whereby the large firms worldwide could take
advantage of cheap programmers from India. American firms were able to
survive the lean times after the dotcom bust better because of cost
cutting that they could afford to do, thanks to outsourcing. If US IT
companies stop outsourcing, they might end up in same boat as US
manufacturing, automotive and agricultural industries (not efficient
enough to compete in a global market).
3. The Middle class in India will be the same size as the entire US
population, by 2025. India and China are a huge market opportunity for
US firms to sell their stuff to (Check out the growth rates for
Computers, Cell Phones, Cars and other commodities in India). I will
not be too surprised if a large swath of American companies makes a
large amount of their revenues by selling to Indian & Chinese consumers
in the near future.
4. It may be true that there is corruption and class culture in India,
but things are getting better with increased transparency in government
and a free and raucous media. No government or system is ideal. You had
slavery and segregation in the not too distant past in the USA. As for
corruption and fraudulent behavior: Watergate, Iran Contra affair, Iraq
war, Enron, Worldcom.. There are plenty of examples where the system
failed leading to lives and livelihoods lost.
5. We are all human beings, trying to secure the best for ourselves and
our families and communities. Bad mouthing and scape-goating someone
else will not solve the problems of this world.
6. To become an Engineer in India, one needs to take an entrance test
(after high school). Here below is a link to a sample Physics paper
that you have to solve in 3 hours. I am sure you can convince yourself
that Indian engineers also know some Physics. That said, I know that
many Indian Engineers fresh out of school are lacking in real world
experience and implementation.
http://www.iitjee.org/iit-question-papers/iit-jee-2003-main/iit-jee-2003
-physics-main.html
Thank You for listening to my rant. I don't expect it to change
anything.
Regards,
Prakash
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of agathon
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:31 AM
To: Andrew W. Riley III; si-list
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
re: going elsewhere to find information:
Glad to oblige...
Google these:
wipro (h-1b OR h1) fraud
wipro (h-1b OR h1) fraud -explain -dice -outsourcing -letters
The 2nd one filters out alot of redundant ones, but the 1st one's top
results are important.
Also...
Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage (Norm Matloff,
UC
Davis)
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.html
vdare mar-04-03 - Is Outsourcing Trade - Or Dispossession
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/free_trade_notes.htm (note: I have no
political associations)
Using L-1 to get around H-1B --BW March 10, 2003 A Visa Loophole as Big
as
a Mainframe
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_10/b3823111_mz021.htm
Office of Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment
Practices
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/htm/contactus.htm
H-1B Class Action Legal Information
http://www.geocities.com/h1baction/Law.html
LCA Database Tutorial
http://www.jobdestruction.com/LCA-Data/Tutorial.htm (main page has a
signup for the newsletter, very influential)
On 7/5/07, Andrew W. Riley III <drew3rdof3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Howdy Steve,
>
> Understood, and I actually agree. But how would I know to go there?
More
> than a few times I have thought there needs to be an appropriate way
to go
> OT and still have the possibility of including the invaluable thoughts
of
> anyone on the SI-List.
>
> Oh well. I thank each of you for your educational posts.
>
> Cheers!
> Drew
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "steve weir" <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <drew3rdof3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: <praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx>; <hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
>
>
> > Drew, this is a global technical forum that allows job postings.
> > Praveen's posts fell easily within those parameters. Agathon's post
was
> > out of bounds on several fronts. The internet is filled with
places
> > where Agathon's post would be far more appropriate.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Steve.
> > Andrew W. Riley III wrote:
> >> Hmm,
> >>
> >> I believe at the *very* most an "OT" should be prepended to the
subject
> >> line and Agathon's post is a very relevant albeit noticeably
sensitive
> >> topic.
> >>
> >> Personally, I also believe that I have been able to get back into
the
> >> career I love because more than a few US companies were tired of
paying
> >> for a bookmark from outsourcing the layout of their design to other
> >> countries.
> >>
> >> At the risk of being flogged, I would like to hear more.
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >> Drew
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> Cc: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:52 AM
> >> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> First of all, I don't think this is a forum where we discuss
> >>> globalization, its impact, outsourcing or H1/L1 Visa frauds. Those
> >>> things are heavens apart from the scope of this list. This message
is
> >>> only for the needy and if someone is not implicated, he/she should
> keep
> >>> quiet.
> >>>
> >>> As the welcome message clearly states, this is a forum to discuss
SI
> >>> related stuff and may be post SI related job opportunities (that
too
> >>> with utmost caution).
> >>>
> >>> Moderator, can you please block these irrelevant messages/senders?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks and regards,
> >>> Praveen
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>>
> >>> From: agathon [mailto:hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx]
> >>> Sent: Thu 7/5/2007 7:38 AM
> >>> To: Praveen Srikantaiah (WT01 - TES-Transport Infrastructure)
> >>> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is interesting. Let's assume this job posting is real.
> >>>
> >>> After years of displacing U.S. citizens via fraudulent use of H-1B
> _and_
> >>> L-1 visas, Wipro has the cajones to post, right in our face, an
> >>> offer of employment in India. No quantity of rupees could
compensate.
> >>>
> >>> Now, some obvious questions arise.
> >>>
> >>> What U.S. citizen are they expecting to hire? If they don't
expect
> to,
> >>> as anyone can subscribe to the si-list, then what non-U.S. citizen
> from
> >>> what country would want such a job location? No, the U.S. - as we
> >>> know - is a declining place, so suddenly not producing enough
> engineers
> >>> and other professionals, it's like the bubonic plague by God, for
> which
> >>> India and China had to come to the rescue. But, I don't think
your
> >>> typical U.S. citizen engineer would take very well to the
corruption
> >>> over there and stark class society.
> >>>
> >>> So, why is Wipro having an issue filling the job with the
'superior'
> >>> non-U.S. citizen worker?
> >>>
> >>> Hmmm... possibly is the targeted candidate Indian? Might they be
in
> >>> the U.S.? Are there no direct means within India to find such a
> person?
> >>> Evidently not. And evidently a shortage exists within Wipro and
> >>> wherever their tentacles reach. Wait, I thought - as the Indian
(and
> >>> U.S., unfortunately) press trumpet - the Indian engineer is so
much
> >>> better and they produce masses of them? What's the problem
finding an
> >>> Indian engineer who also knows a little physics? Gee whiz. So
sad.
> >>>
> >>> I've just heard (BBC I think) that U.S. companies are closing
Indian
> >>> operations. And, the Indian edge is decreasing due to costs. So,
> don't
> >>> offer the weak crap that it's demand that's causing the Wipro
posting.
> >>> Intel is going to Vietnam, instead. Yep, the race to the
> bottom. Even
> >>> the Indians might actually catch a clue sometime
> soon. Americans? No;
> >>> too deep in sleep. I have NEVER met an H-1B/L-1 who could
contribute
> to
> >>> any SI effort and, at Intel on one occasion, only contributed to
> >>> negative productivity.
> >>>
> >>> More likely, Wipro and the like are starting to retrench and build
the
> >>> home base. Especially since the H-1B cap wasn't raised. The
rampant
> >>> fraud in India has drained off alot of the H-1B slots, leaving
Wipro
> >>> high and dry. Well, waddya know, the law of supply and demand
does
> >>> exist. Just not in the usual way. Yee ha!!
> >>>
> >>> "Fraudsters walk away with H1B visas!"
> >>> http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=3D2421&tstart=3D0
> >>> "Glen Keiser, Consular Section Chief, US Consulate, Mumbai said,
"We
> >>> have found to our regret that Hyderabad and Bangalore are centres
of
> H1B
> >>> visa fraud and that it is not difficult to walk into an operation
and
> >>> someone rather forthrightly tell you that they can produce
anything to
> >>> appear to qualify for an H1B visa...". The link at the above link
has
> >>> Indian tv video describing Wipro's Woes.
> >>>
> >>> The 5% of their GDP that is tech exports (incl. services) is not
> growing
> >>> as in the past and the nervousness doth rear its ugly head. Plus,
the
> >>> only way to exploit the L-1 visa is to have personnel employed at
a
> >>> "home base", ready for transfer to the U.S. - without any
protections
> >>> for U.S. citizens whatsoever (not even any H-1B fig leaf
protection).
> >>>
> >>> So, this is a rich thought... Like my mom always said, "the truth
> will
> >>> out". And it cometh right quick. So I say India should legislate
a
> >>> US-1 visa whereby we foreigners may be imported to save the ship.
At
> an
> >>> appropriate premium, of course. But, that might have to wait
until
> >>> AFTER our Congress has devolved us further, maybe into 3rd World
> status.
> >>>
> >>> Obviously, since India is apparently incapable of producing
someone
> >>> skilled enough, Wipro is counting on past H-1B exploitation of
Indians
> &
> >>> Americans having produced someone who can do this work from their
U.S.
> >>> experience _and_ who now wants to work in Bangalore, ready to
continue
> >>> taking work from U.S. citizens, or others, in their own country.
> That
> >>> takes balls. And a U.S. Congress bought and paid for.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 6/29/07, praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx <
> praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Wipro Technologies' SI group is looking for an SI engineer with
around
> >>> 10 years of experience. The job is based out of Bangalore, India.
> Below
> >>> is the job description. If interested email me.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Praveen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Roles & Responsibilities
> >>> PCB stack-up definition, PCB material selection, and layer
assignment
> as
> >>> per Signal Integrity / Cross talk requirements.
> >>> Do pre-layout and post-layout signal Integrity analysis for
various
> >>> boards.
> >>> Review analysis results and all checks as per guidelines needed by
> Wipro
> >>> and client specifications.
> >>> Review Signal quality measurement results and tune models/
methodology
> >>> accordingly.
> >>> Develop/Enhance/Update methodology based on advancements in Signal
> >>> Integrity / Design complexity. Designs will be in various domains
like
> >>> Telecom, Computing, Embedded, Automotive, Consumer Electronics
etc.
> >>> Skills, Job Requirements
> >>>
> >>> Hands on experience in execution of high speed signal integrity
> analysis
> >>> and cross talk analysis on High frequency boards involving
different
> >>> types of models - IBIS, Spice, SLM/MLM/ICM.
> >>>
> >>> Detailed experience with multiple tools like Spectraquest,
Hyperlynx,
> >>> Hspice, ICX etc. required.
> >>> Experience in doing IBIS model validation, Signal Integrity
Analysis
> of
> >>> PCI express, XAUI or similar interfaces is a must.
> >>> Experience in doing multi board simulations is an added advantage.
> >>> Must have experience in High Speed/ Gigabit speed Signal Quality
> >>> measurements.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The information contained in this electronic message and any
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> >>> to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the
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