[SI-LIST] Re: Number of layers

All,

A few clarifying additions on the appnote Steve referenced:

XAPP623 is the PDN design guideline for older Virtex products like
Virtex-2 Pro.  The china.xilinx.com link below should pull up the
correct document, but here's the link through our main website:

http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/application_notes/xapp623.pd
f

For current FPGAs like Virtex-4 and Virtex-5, we made the guidelines
specific to each product family.  This was necessary because the device
power systems have been getting more unique.  Consult the respective PCB
Design Guide for PDN design guidelines:

Virtex-4:
http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/user_guides/ug072.pdf
Virtex-5:
http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/user_guides/ug203.pdf =


Virtex-5 is the first family where we've made the decoupling guidelines
completely prescriptive: it's a fixed network per-device.

-mark
 =


-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Salkow, Steven
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:45 AM
To: Dan Bostan; Ambr Amit
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Number of layers



Picture is worth a 1000 words. (See my website:
http://www.bychoice.com/XC2VP70_6FF1704C.jpg

This is a Xilinx part from one of our designs with the GND pins
highlighted. You can see what they have done. The layout of an IC and
the ability to PIN it out is always a compromise. Xilinx, however, has
done something rather smart as far as decoupling the IC has they have
included capacitance in their packaging that minimizes the effect of
ground bounce. The complex nature of electronic packaging has kept many
fine electronic engineers employed for life and that cannot be conveyed
in an email. Many designs, like PC are executed in 4 layers as it's real
cheap. To make that even practical, SI engineers at Intel and other
companies often iteratively redesign the board chip sets and even the
processor until they have something that works. Are these OPTIMUM
solutions as far as signal integrity? -- Absolutely not. =


The number of pins, the amount of signals switching at the same time,
the pin inductance, differential coupling, amount of power needed, etc.
. .

This app note from Xilinx may help a lot:
http://china.xilinx.com/support/documentation/application_notes/xapp623.
pdf

Good Luck
Steve Salkow

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Dan Bostan
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 10:48 AM
To: Ambr Amit
Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Number of layers

Why use only four layers for the board?
In order to break the signals properly under the chip you (probably)
need six layers for the board.
Going that way you would improve the SI.
/dan

----- Original Message ----
From: Ambr Amit <ambr_amit@xxxxxxxxx>
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:01:10 AM
Subject: (no subject)

Hi,

    I'm working on a 6-layer flipchip package design with following
stackup:





VSS


signal


VDD


VSS


VDD


Balls





    This package gets used on a 4-layer board with stackup of





signal


VSS


VDD


signal





    The design supports high speed interfaces like DDR3-1600 & multiple
Serdes (upto 5Gbps). While doing ball assignment I'm proposing to place
power/ground (VDD/VSS) balls in the perimeter of package (to get better
return paths for high speed signals). But based on the board routing
this is turning out to be bad idea because it blocks lot of signal
routes and proposal is to move all the power/ground (VDD/VSS) inside
towards the centre of the package.
I'm not comfortable with this because =






- this will affect the return path =



- it results in current crowding in the central area where lot of
VDD/VSS balls are places


- and ineffective use of package internal planes





     This can result in SI issues. But sadly I do not have any data
which can support that moving all the VDD/VSS towards centre will result
in SI issues. One part is doing simulation to see the impact of bad
return path, which I'm working on. But if someone in SI-list has already
done study on this scenario, I would appreciate their opinions and data
on this subject.





Thanks and regards


Amit





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